River of Fire

[Rilian]

All the talk lately about sin and salvation reminded me of one of the first things I read about Orthodoxy, The River of Fire. I'm curios if anyone else has read this and what they think.

** A note of warning. The author uses a fair amount of anti-Western rhetoric **

 

[Eusebios]

I have read it and was extremely challenged I will go back and take a look at it again when the oppurtunity presents itself.
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.

 

[Kripost]

All the talk lately about sin and salvation reminded me of one of the first things I read about Orthodoxy, The River of Fire. I'm curios if anyone else has read this and what they think.

** A note of warning. The author uses a fair amount of anti-Western rhetoric **

I've read that one quite some time ago. Anti-Western rethoric notwithstanding, But the author did make some interesting points.

It did address my questions regarding Christ's sacrifice(i.e. ransom theory, atonement theory, satisfaction theory, etc.). The issue of Justice vs. Mercy of God is also dealt with more coherently than any other explainations I have heard of so far.
More significantly, it answers the question "Why did a loving God create Hell?" by stating that Hell is not a place of punishment, but is a state of rejection of God's love while being in His presence. It actually makes sense!
In short, it was quite a paradigm shift.

There is another article which deals with something similar: http://aggreen.net/beliefs/heaven_hell.html

Just a question for Orthodox posters: Is this view popularly accepted among the Orthodox?

 

[Photini]

I've read it also. It really helped me to understand what Hell is better...which is something I really couldn't quite think of with fear before. There is a common counsel given by the Fathers, to remind ourselves of the torment of Hell and the blessedness of the Kingdom. This article really put it into perspective for me.
After all, being in constant contact with the one you rejected or wronged is far worse than being seperated from them.

 

[vanshan]

I read it and if that is the accurate Orthodox position on God's judgement and hell I think that draws one of the most important differences between Orthodox and Western theology.

I was very moved by the explanation of God as ever-merciful and completely benevolent, which does counter the ideas of God I had growing up Protestant.

 

[Eusebios]

I've read that one quite some time ago, anti-Western rethoric notwithstanding, the author does make some interesting points.

There is another article which deals with something similar: http://aggreen.net/beliefs/heaven_hell.html

Just a question for Orthodox posters: Is this view popularly accepted among the Orthodox?

Kripost,
Thanks for the wonderful link! This article is a much less polemic approach to the subject. And it is what those in our parish have been taught, and , I believe, generally accepted Orthodox theology. Thanks again!
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.

 

[Rilian]

Thanks also Kripost, that's a very good link and much less polemical as Eusebios rightly stated. I'm under the impression that the group that put out the River of Fire article and where the lecture occurred is on the fringes of Orthodoxy and is a non-canonical group.

Anyhow, reading these articles pretty well crystallized my views of Heaven and Hell and were a paradigm shift for me too. They also remind me of C.S. Lewis' "The Great Divorce", I don't know if you've ever read that.

 

[Oblio]

I'm under the impression that the group that put out the article and where the lecture was in rather on the fringes of Orthodoxy and is a non-canonical group.

I believe that is correct.

From the link, St. Nectarios American Orthodox Church was the sponsor.

 

[Oblio]

The Holy Orthodox Church of North America (HOCNA) - Toronto, Ontario, Canada. It is sad when a church has to go to this far in justifying its existence. The home page states: "This jurisdiction was formed when accusations of sexual immorality were brought up against Archimandrite Pantelemon, the abbot Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston, MA, by the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, or the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. Instead of appearing before the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad to explain these accusations, Archimandrite Pantelemon and his followers broke away from the Russian Church Abroad and formed the schismatic unit called the Holy Orthodox Church of North America, otherwise known as HOCNA. Archimandrite Pantelemon then had to find a way to consecrate bishops for HOCNA, since not even one bishop of the Russian Church Abroad decided to join Archimandrite Pantelemon and spiral into schism. Therefore, Archimandrite Pantelemon searched for someone who would ordain bishops for him so HOCNA could be an entity. After joining various schismatic Greek jurisdictions, Archimandrite Pantelemon found his opening he wanted through the former Archbishop of the Genuine Orthodox Church of Greece, who had been defrocked for his uncanonical actions taken during his tenure, Archbishop Auxentios (Patras). Archbishop Auxentios then proceeded to consecrate bishops for Archimandrite Pantelemon because of the false information Archimandrite Pantelemon gave Archbishop Auxentios about the reasons why he and his followers left the Russian Church Abroad. After the consecrations of Archimandrite Pantelemon's bishops for HOCNA, Archimandrite Pantelemon broke away from the Archbishop." Another web site entry. | Parishes of this group. | Disturbing information about HOCNA from Pokrov.Org.

St. Nectarios American Orthodox Church - Seattle, WA. This is a breakaway church, a parish of the HOCNA jurisdiction, formed, its web site states, "...early in 1968 when the new American Orthodox Parish of St. Nectarios was formed in the hall of a Russian-Orthodox Church on Seattle's Capitol Hill. The handful of people there were pathfinders, for the new congregation was blazing a trail — the first of several parishes to be established by Orthodox Christians in the United States against the heresy of ecumenism and the lifting of the anathemas against the Roman Catholic Church by the Patriarch of Constantinople."

 

[Eusebios]

SWacry Bro. and sad, thanks for the heads up. Still have a general positive feeling about the article in spite of it all. The link Kripost gave is undoubtedly superior and appears to be wholly canonical in content and origin.
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.

 

[Oblio]

As I recall, I had a positve feeling from the article also. When I first read it, I was not quite as attuned to the existence some of the vagate groups out there. Sponsorship by an non-Canonical goup is not necessarily the kiss of death, witness the fine NT put out by the ROAC group in Buena Vista Co. I certainly wouldn't join their 'Church' but find their NT publication to be quite Orthodox.