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Righteousness involves works?

Discussion in 'Word of Faith' started by Tatu, Jun 7, 2006.

  1. Tatu

    Tatu Well-Known Member

    807
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    Before you say, "No! No way. Our righteousness was determined by Jesus' works," hold on.

    Doesn't it make sense that our faith in that causes works? And if you don't have those works, your faith will fail and be dead?

    How can you be righteousness if you believe in Jesus' works but still have deliberate, habitual sin?
     
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  2. Christina M

    Christina M Guest

    +0
    Have I told you lately that I love you, Tatu! :kiss:

    You are wise beyond your years! We need more of your generation to be like you!:)

    Keep the faith! :amen:
     
  3. Trish1947

    Trish1947 Free to Believe

    +393
    Word of Faith
    Married
    You really have alot of wisdom for your age Tatu.

    We aren't working for our salvation, that's for sure. But we have works of faith because of that salvation. "Freely you have received, freely give."
     
  4. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Yes Tatu is wise for his age. Wish there were more young men like him instead of those Wild Boys surfer dude types (I'm talking about a generation that fed on MTV and talk like MTV)

    Anyway, righteousness is a gift. Either you have it or you don't. It is also a person really, cos the Bible says that Jesus is our righteousness, wisdom, sanctification. So as long as you are born again and in Christ, you are as righteous as God, simply becos the righteousness you have as a gift comes from the Lord. It's His own righteousness He has imparted to you.

    Where do works come in then? If you are truly born again, there will be works to prove it TO MEN NOT TO GOD.

    Our good works are for MAN to see that we indeed are different, called out from the world.

    The egs given are Abraham and Rahab. If you think about it, Abraham believed and was made righteous some 15 years BEFORE he had works -- the work of sacrificing his son which James was refering to. His son was by now a "young lad" -- about 15?

    So his work came some 15 years after being made righteous.

    Likewise for Rahab. If I';m not wrong, she believed some 40 years earlier, when she heard all about what God had done for the Israelites -- opening up the red sea and all. She believed then, I believe, but her good work of hiding the spies came only some 40 years later.

    The problem today is that once someone becomes a Christian, we expect good works from them the next day.
     
  5. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Our behaviour has nothing to do with righteousness. Whether you behave right or not, you are still righteous. Why simply becos its by grace not works. Grace means not only NOT getting the punishement (hell) you deserve (that's mercy) but getting the blessings you DON'T deserve (that's grace -- God's unmerited favour)

    Think about it: When you were a sinner, your good behaviour or works did not make you righteous. So what makes you think that now, as a Christian, your bad bahaviour will undo your righteousness. In the first place, you didn't even get it through works (behaviour) so how can you lose it through works (behaviour)?

    Won't that lead to more sin?

    That is the problem Paul faced from his critics who were accusing him of telling others to sin more so that grace may abound.

    So you see, when you preach the gospel as it is, the way Paul preached it, you will face this criticism and misunderstainding. If not, then you are not preaching the pure Gospel of grace.

    It is God's goodness that leads us to repentance. Not His punishments and judgments.

    So the more you tell people the good news, the more you tell them how righteous they are inspite of how bad they are, the more they will "awake to righteousness and sin not". The more you give them the gift of no condemnation (as in the case of the woman caught in adultery) the more they have the strength to go and sin no more.

    That is the good news, the gospel of grace and peace. You don't need the Holy Spirit to understand 'do good get good, do bad get beat' (Old Cov) but you neet the Spirit to understand/grasp the new cov of grace -- I'm still righteous and blessed inspite of my good or bad behaviour.
     
  6. Tatu

    Tatu Well-Known Member

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    If I have wisdom it definitely did not originate with me. ;)


    Wow. I'm going to need to think about this for a few days. Wow.


    Quick question. This is gonna be offtopic sorry. How do I let men see my good works as Jesus commanded in Matthew 5:16, while still giving in secret as Jesus commanded in Matthew 6:3?

    I've always been like, "I am gonna get my harvest, and I am not gonna ruin it by telling anyone about anything good I've done!" lol


    Wow, so true.
     
  7. Tatu

    Tatu Well-Known Member

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    Jesus in Matt 6:1 says, "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."

    What's up with that? :scratch:


    thanks all :hug:
     
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    That has to do with attitude and motives. I'm not saying you do good works for the sake of doing them or to show off to others how good you are. I think you are intelligent enough to understand that.

    But the way you live your life will be itself a testimony to others. The way you talk minus the cussing and murmuring. Or just saying grace over your food or politely rejecting an invitation to watch an RA movie. People may poke fun at you but they will take note.

    People, your loved ones, friends, will observe you. They may not tell you, but they will know there's something different and respectful about you. Then one day, when they are in trouble or feeling down, they call you up for advice cos they know you have integrity and wisdom, that you know God.

    Don't forget, Jesus also said:

    Matthew 5:16
    16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.


    So where Matt 6:1 is concerned, it is about the attitude and motivations in your heart. Do it becos you want to, becos you love God. Not to impress. Not becos religions says you must or else...

    God will put His desires and wills in your heart. ie good works prepared for you to do. ie He will give you the desire to want to do it. With that desire He also gives you the ability to carry them out. Then at the end of the day, He gives you the credit, the rewards!

    Philippians 2:12-13
    work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

    He will work the willingness and ability into you. So you won't feel like you are being forced to do something you totally dislike.




     
  9. Tatu

    Tatu Well-Known Member

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    ok. cool.

    could it also be matt 5 is about works but matt 6 is about giving? or do you think works/giving applies to both.

    one time i mentioned to a baptist friend that i wanted a $600 cell phone. he judged me harshly. what he didn't realize, is that if i hadn't given away money I could have bought myself several $600 phones! i didn't say anything because i didn't want to jeopardize my harvest. lol. i proabbly should have though... maybe he wouldn't have written me off as some "evil prosperity person".

    i can only imagine what he'll think when he sees my next car! LOL.
     
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    I see them as the same thing -- good works. :)
     
  11. Dondi

    Dondi Veteran

    +87
    Christian
    Married
    Jesus also said in Matthew 6:3:

    "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:"

    I take that to mean to do you duty to God without expecation of praise, either from yourself or from others. Like Andrew said, it has to do with our attitude. It's ok to do something for the Lord publically, but don't think of yourself highly for it. If men praise you for it, then consider it a blessing, but don't go looking for it. You make yourself an example for others by just doing the work, not by flaunting it. Just remember, everything you do is by the grace of God anyway, so His name should be praised.
     
  12. Dondi

    Dondi Veteran

    +87
    Christian
    Married
    In the end, all confusion about the Trinity will vanish:

    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." - I John 3:2
     
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