Right or Wrong

[Strider]

Is it wrong for a thief to steal food for his own survival? I have heard question this b4 but I need an answer.

BTw does this apply to bigger "neccessities"? Such as housing, stuff like that?

Calling on theologists and experts.


Thnx,

Strider

 

[justaman]

Depends on who you're asking. Morality is relative. It's right for the thief, wrong for the victim, dubious for you and I.

 

[Strider]

basically from the right perspective, what do u think God will think?

Please give me a straight answer not some "depends on..."

Thnx

Strider

 

[ToddNotTodd]

basically from the right perspective, what do u think God will think?

Please give me a straight answer not some "depends on..."

Thnx

Strider

I take it you mean the Christian God. Throughout my Christian upbringing, I was taught that God's commandments were mostly inflexible. If God (or Kant) says don't steal, then you should never steal under any circumstances. There aren't footnotes to the ten commandments that give instances where they can be bent or broken.

Not that I agree with any of that...

 

[Strider]

but i beg to differ, not that I want you to change stances to make me feel better.

say a spy in some enemy territory is beat senseless, his partner is also in there and he spills the beans on where a shelter of civilians are, the enemy is ready to close in, but u tell a lie to save the people.

I once read in a BMW magazine of a jewish entrepeneur who escaped the nazis by saying he wasnt jewish.

i know that killing for defense or in a war situation is neccessary and acceptable for that alone but what about stealing a secret document from the enemy?

Just some things I have heard of, thought of. Plz enlighten me!

 

[ToddNotTodd]

but i beg to differ, not that I want you to change stances to make me feel better.

say a spy in some enemy territory is beat senseless, his partner is also in there and he spills the beans on where a shelter of civilians are, the enemy is ready to close in, but u tell a lie to save the people.

I once read in a BMW magazine of a jewish entrepeneur who escaped the nazis by saying he wasnt jewish.

i know that killing for defense or in a war situation is neccessary and acceptable for that alone but what about stealing a secret document from the enemy?

Just some things I have heard of, thought of. Plz enlighten me!

Well, I suppose a Christian would ask that you provide any scriptural reference that allows stealing under certain instances. If you can find it then it would be allowed. If not, wouldn't you assume that the commandment would stand as written?

 

[lucid42day]

Is it wrong for a thief to steal food for his own survival? I have heard question this b4 but I need an answer.

BTw does this apply to bigger "neccessities"? Such as housing, stuff like that?

Calling on theologists and experts.

I can't claim to be either. It would depend on what his other options were. If he were stealing food for his own survival instead of paying for it, he's probably doing something bad. And since you've already branded him a thief before he steals the food, you probably agree.

 

[jayem]

This may not fully answer the question, but some ethicists write about the concept of prima facie wrongs. This is an action that is wrong, but may be justified if such action will prevent a greater wrong. Stealing is a prima facie wrong. If yourself, or another person is facing starvation, then stealing is preferable if there is nothing else that will prevent loss of life. This is not a perfect answer, and still involves much subjectivity, but we don't live in a perfect world. Most any textbook on ethics will have a discussion of prima facie ethics.

 

[openeyes]

Under what circumstances would a person be in a situation that wouldn't allow them to ask for basic survival needs?
Under what circumstances would a compassionate person not provide help?

 

[evolisamyth]

It's wrong to steal. The bible says not to.
But why would he have to steal what he needs? Doesn't the bible tell us to lend to those in need and not expect to be paid back interest? The bible tells us to give to those who are in need.
I'm not saying to give all to all who are in need. The bible is full of principles which we are to apply to the situation. So, in a way, a situational answer may very well be appropriate to the question.
One of the principles given is that if the man will not work, he will not eat. Does that mean that if the man is not working we should not help him? No, it does not. It tells us that if he WILL not work, he will not eat. There is a difference. We cannot just throw our resources around like that. That would be poor stuardship of that which God has given us. An underlying principle throughout the scripture is to help those who need it but to use decernment and good judgment.
Let's say for instance, a drunk homeless man on the street asks you for money so that he can buy food to survive. Do you give him the money? No! What's to say that he wont just go buy more booze. Really want to help him get food? Take him to the store with you and buy the food. Sure, it takes time and a bit more sacrifice than a few extra bills in your pocket. But, you are not helping him sustain his destructive drinking habbit. At least now he doesn't have to steal to get the food. But why stop there? How about getting/directing him to a shelter where he can get help and maybe get cleaned up? Maybe even direction on how to get sobered up?
Think about it. If he's got the wherewithal to steal, he certainly is capable of work of some kind.

Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of the turn not thou away.

 

[Havoc]

Think about it. If he's got the wherewithal to steal, he certainly is capable of work of some kind.

Yes please, let's do think about it.

There's that whole "perfect world" problem again. This may not be the US we're talking about. If work were available the problem may not have existed in the first place. I've been to places as a peacekeeper where the rich hoarded whatever was available and your neighbour would rather see you dead than feed your children. In those places children really do steal to survive. These are not hypothetical children, they are real, and they die.

Judaism, whose laws these are, teaches that any law of property or any requirement of Kosher may be set aside to save a life.

 

[evolisamyth]

Great point. So the rich do hoard away all the resources. I've covered that in my earlier post. They are no less guilty of the fact that these children have to steal to survive than the children that are doing the stealing. They are part of the problem. And that was part of my point.
Greed and selfishness on the part of the rich contributes to the theft conducted by the poor.
So they have to steal to survive...justifiable...but still wrong.

 

[Blessed75]

Is it wrong for a thief to steal food for his own survival? I have heard question this b4 but I need an answer.

BTw does this apply to bigger "neccessities"? Such as housing, stuff like that?

Calling on theologists and experts.


Thnx,

Strider

To tell someone not to say it depends on the situation then really your question cannot be answered by some people b/c it does depend on the situation IMO.