Right Division

[ralliann]

The Old Covenant is obsolete, which means "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes," in which God works His holiness in the individual's soul - "I will write My law in their minds and put it in their hearts." So then Jesus replaced the high priests, and His own body on the cross replaced all the animal sacrifices. There is a change of law, which means the only law we have today to measure ourselves by is the moral law of God, since that law must be used to convict us of sin and motivate us to repentance, since the Holy Spirit uses it to convict. Agreed?

agreed.

 

[ralliann]

And do you have a verse where the NEW COVENANT was preached BY Jesus and am interested in studying that verse ?

And what does the NEW COVENANT be in operation and how is anyone SAVED by the NEW COVENANT ?

dan p

I already touched upon all that. I was accused of "spamming". Read Hebrews.

 

[Guojing]

Furthermore, if Jesus was teaching the same salvation by law-keeping that the Pharisees taught (contrary to the gospel Paul taught), then why would the Pharisees say that Jesus was "misleading the people" ("he deceiveth the people") - John 7:12? The fact that legalism ends in condemnation should tell anyone with sense that Jesus didn't teach that. The doctrine of salvation by law-keeping leads to self-righteousness, and Jesus told parables against those "who thought they were righteous" (Lk. 18:9).

We have to conclude, then, that Paul taught the same gospel as Jesus.

Your conclusion don't follow from your premises.

Since you chose John, The Pharisees oppose Jesus because they don't believe he is Israel's promised Messiah (John 20:30-31)

John 11

45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.

47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.

48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

It has nothing to do with whether salvation is by law keeping or not.

 

[tdidymas]

Your conclusion don't follow from your premises.

Since you chose John, The Pharisees oppose Jesus because they don't believe he is Israel's promised Messiah (John 20:30-31)

John 11

45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.

47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.

48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

It has nothing to do with whether salvation is by law keeping or not.

You're leaving out my whole explanation. Did you even read it? How about trying to understand it? But what I see here is you responding to my last paragraph and statement and concluding "Your conclusion don't follow from your premises," with some section of John 11.

It looks to me like you just want to argue, so I'm done with you.

 

[Guojing]

You're leaving out my whole explanation. Did you even read it? How about trying to understand it? But what I see here is you responding to my last paragraph and statement and concluding "Your conclusion don't follow from your premises," with some section of John 11.

It looks to me like you just want to argue, so I'm done with you.

I didn't bother with the other paragraphs because you are merely expressing your different opinion and different interpretation of scripture, and I let you have them.

But didn't you make this claim there, and you started with "furthermore", indicating that paragraph could stand on its own?

if Jesus was teaching the same salvation by law-keeping that the Pharisees taught (contrary to the gospel Paul taught), then why would the Pharisees say that Jesus was "misleading the people" ("he deceiveth the people")

before you reach your final conclusion that therefore Paul and Jesus must be preaching the same gospel?

Of course, if you rather not explain, you are always free to do so, cheers.

 

[timf]

Salvation differences

when saved
kingdom = Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
grace = 2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: (are = present tense)

how saved
kingdom = Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
grace = Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

saved to what
kingdom = Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
grace = Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

One can understand the passion to defend what one has accepted as truth. However, it can also be beneficial to consider that through which a deeper understanding might be achieved.

 

[Dan Perez]

Salvation differences

when saved
kingdom = Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
grace = 2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: (are = present tense)

how saved
kingdom = Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
grace = Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

saved to what
kingdom = Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
grace = Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

One can understand the passion to defend what one has accepted as truth. However, it can also be beneficial to consider that through which a deeper understanding might be achieved.

Salvation differences

when saved
kingdom = Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
grace = 2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: (are = present tense)

how saved
kingdom = Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
grace = Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

saved to what
kingdom = Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
grace = Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

One can understand the passion to defend what one has accepted as truth. However, it can also be beneficial to consider that through which a deeper understanding might be achieved.

And you say , How saved , by Acts 2:38 , and did Israel ever REPENT ??

The Greek words Ye SHALL RECIEVE // LAMBANO , is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , meaning that Israel WILL repent in the FUTURE and is in the MIDDLE VOICE , that the subject n is participating in the action .

And verse in Acts 2:336 is speaking to Israel !!

And Israel is the one to become kings and priests , in EX 19:6 are all from Israel , and not GENTILES !!

And also to be priests all had to come from the line of Aaron and that is why the BODY of Christ has NO PRIESTS .

Also notice that this BAPTIZED , does not say with WATER /. HUDOR is not in the Greek text .

dan p

dan p