Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

[MoreCoffee]

I wonder how the Jews of today would view since they are mentioned in it and it was also spoken to them.
[They of course do not read the NT/NC of the Christian Bible ]
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The Jews of today are not the Jews of Jesus' day and I do not think they believed the same things so what was said to the Jews of Jesus' day probably is not said to Jews today.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus I wonder how the Jews of today would view since they are mentioned in it and it was also spoken to them.
[They of course do not read the NT/NC of the Christian Bible ]
...

The Jews of today are not the Jews of Jesus' day and I do not think they believed the same things so what was said to the Jews of Jesus' day probably is not said to Jews today.

That makes logical sense...


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[LittleLambofJesus]

I love all you guys.
I may talk too much sometimes, but i mean well.

We know you do bro

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Anymore views on this? Thanks


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[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Stryder06 Luke 16 is a parable.

If Hell is a place where people will be weeping and gnashing thier teeth, I doubt they'll have the presence of mind to articulate such a request as displayed here. I also doubt water to drink would do him any good or bring him any comfort while his flesh was on fire.

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA
True enough, but Christ is not in the habbit of using false things to teach a truth.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

An example is just that, an example. The truth that was being taught was that if you won't believe the word of God, you won't believe anything.

I do not see any biblical evidence that it is a parable.

Jesus had an MO when it came to parables. He talked and gave the parable, people were confused every single time(so this is not one of the ones that they just got, because no one got them)
And then he explains it, even the ones they somewhat got.

This is not a parable. It does not follow his MO for parables.

Nice term ehehe



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[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Those who insist that this is not a parable but a true, literal story Yeshua told to describe the condition of the lost in hell must overlook several facts to arrive at that conclusion.
First, Yeshua the Messiah never accuses the rich man of any sin. He is simply portrayed as a wealthy man who lived the good life.
Furthermore, Lazarus is never proclaimed to be a righteous man. He is just one who had the misfortune to be poor and unable to care for himself.

If this story is literal, then the logical implication is that all the rich are destined to burn in hell, while all the homeless and destitute will be saved. Does anyone believe this to be the case?

I think he was accused though... It slightly subtle but I believe it is there.

In luke 16 the story says the man Lazarus was laid at the rich man's gate because he was hoping to get crumbs to feed himself. It says the beggar died with basically only dogs tending to him, which probably hurt.

It is obvious the rich man did nothing about it. He neglected Lazarus so much that dogs where the only comfort to Lazarus. This rich man's sin, as with most rich people, is pride and greed. He ignored the needs of someone less fortunate then himself and did not love Lazarus.

I personally would say, those dogs have more right to be in heaven then the rich man.

IF this is a parable, it is a parable on about the pharisees not needing help and being damned, by Jesus, indicated by him calling them white washed tombs and their throat is an open grave... and the sinner needing Jesus's salvation.

The Apostle Paul mentions "dogs" concerning the "circumcision...interesting


Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YLT
"dogs"
occurs 23 times in 22 verses in the YLT

Phl 3:2
Beware of the dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation/circumcision!

Beware the circumcision!

A priest, a minister and a rabbi decide to see who's best at his job. The test is to go into the woods, find a bear and try to convert it.
After they are done the priest says, "I read to the bear from the Catechism, sprinkled him with holy water and next week is his First Communion."
The minister said, "I found a bear by the stream, preached God's holy word and he let me baptize him in the river."
The rabbi was bandaged from head to foot and said. "Looking back, maybe I shouldn't have started with the circumcision."

 

[Tiredknight]

The Apostle Paul mentions "dogs" concerning the "circumcision...interesting


Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YLT
"dogs"
occurs 23 times in 22 verses in the YLT



Beware the circumcision!

A priest, a minister and a rabbi decide to see who's best at his job. The test is to go into the woods, find a bear and try to convert it.
After they are done the priest says, "I read to the bear from the Catechism, sprinkled him with holy water and next week is his First Communion."
The minister said, "I found a bear by the stream, preached God's holy word and he let me baptize him in the river."
The rabbi was bandaged from head to foot and said. "Looking back, maybe I shouldn't have started with the circumcision."

I see that, but I also this as not a parable, so I see that as Souless animals trying to do what they were made for!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I personally would say, those dogs have more right to be in heaven then the rich man.
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Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus The Apostle Paul mentions "dogs" concerning the "circumcision...interesting

I see that, but I also this as not a parable, so I see that as Souless animals trying to do what they were made for!

According to Genesis 1, they have souls?
Also, do you think it is talking about literal "dogs"?

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number H5315 matches the Hebrew נֶפֶשׁ (nephesh), which occurs 753 times in 683 verses in the Hebrew concordance
AV — soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15,creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, misc 47

Gen 1:24
And God 430 said 559 , Let the land 776 bring forth 3318 the living 2416 creature/soul 5315 after his kind 4327,
cattle 929, and creeping thing 7431, and beast 2416 of the land 776 after his kind 4327: and it was so.

5315 nephesh neh'-fesh from 5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):--any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.



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[Tiredknight]

According to Genesis 1, they have souls?
Also, do you think it is talking about literal "dogs"?

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number H5315 matches the Hebrew נֶפֶשׁ (nephesh), which occurs 753 times in 683 verses in the Hebrew concordance
AV — soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15,creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, misc 47


5315 nephesh neh'-fesh from 5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):--any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.



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This is another possible thread derailment!

I do not feel this is correct. I do not think it is, because the bible says that only man was made in his Image.

Now later in the NT the bible says that God has no physical form that he is Spirit. So the fact that we have bodies is not how we are made in his Image. The fact that we have souls is how we are made in his Image. Animals are not made in his Image.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus According to Genesis 1, they have souls?
Also, do you think it is talking about literal "dogs"?

Phl 3:2
Beware of the dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation/circumcision!

This is another possible thread derailment!

I do not feel this is correct. I do not think it is, because the bible says that only man was made in his Image.
Animals are not made in his Image.

What do you make of Psalm 22:16?
Literal "dogs"?

Psa 22:16
For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;

Jhn 19:6
Therefore, when the chief priests and officers saw Him, they cried out saying, "Crucify [Him], crucify [Him]!"
Pilate said to them, "Ye take Him and crucify [Him], for I find no fault in Him."

 

[Tiredknight]

What do you make of Psalm 22:16?
Literal "dogs"?

Not literal. I believe Psalms in the books of poetry. It is not literal. Filled with good pictures of love and provision of God but not in any literal sense. If that was the case our souls are deers that just wanna drink water from a river...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

6 November 2008...

Really LLOJ? Wow!

Does it have it's arms up when it walks?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

6 November 2008...
Really LLOJ? Wow!
Does it have it's arms up when it walks?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

And your point is?


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[Hentenza]

And your point is?


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Thread necromania is punishable by extreme tickle torture.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

And your point is?


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Just that the thread is older than I expected.

I for one believe that Christ does not make contradictions in his teachings.

So... for me eternal heaven and eternal hell fire are a reality of Christian truth.

What's the recap of opinions here?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Do 'good' old' thread cancel out new bad threads?

Sounds like a good tradeoff to me.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Tiredknight]

Just that the thread is older than I expected.

I for one believe that Christ does not make contradictions in his teachings.

So... for me eternal heaven and eternal hell fire are a reality of Christian truth.

What's the recap of opinions here?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Eternal hell and Eternal Heaven aren't really what is being talked about... OF COURSE i did only read the first post and what LLOJ asked me to post about. So i could be wrong.

 

[Tiredknight]

Do 'good' old' thread cancel out new bad threads?

Sounds like a good tradeoff to me.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

I think a demon just obliterated...

I agree!

 

[AndrewK9]

Adrian Rogers, I believe, said it best: "In no other parable did Jesus use a man's name. We have no real reason to sumrise that this is a parable. It may be, and probably is, an historical event, but if it is a parable, the truth is the same, parabolic or not."

Taken from his sermon "Five Minutes After Death".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA 6 November 2008...
Really LLOJ? Wow!
Does it have it's arms up when it walks?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Thread necromania is punishable by extreme tickle torture.

Well, it isn't really necromancy.
Look at all the views and posts since it started. It has the highest views on GT, and it hasn't even split yet!

http://www.christianforums.com/f80/?daysprune=45&order=desc&sort=views

posts: 918 views 21,803



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