JudaicChristian
Well-Known Member
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
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The Lake of Fire is not depicted to be thrown into itself! What are you thinking in that statement?
Ultimately all sin, evil and DEATH will reside in that LAKE forever and ever...including the temporal purveyors of those powers, the devil and his messengers.
They are currently HELL ON EARTH...and they WILL GET their just rewards, permanently.
Where would that be located at according to the Jewish/Hebrew mindset?Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Yeah. Most Christians when they view HELL, they are viewing the matter above, THE LAKE, as the FINAL HELL.
I am not aware of any Pagan or Christian teaching that there is more than one Hell.
The words coal and fire are often used to mean "judgement."Well, if HELL/HADES/GEHENNA is cast into the infamous LAKE at the end, what's yer beef again?
Here is a form of burning that goes on right now:
Matthew 12:43
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
If one applies the previously noted 'decipher' of parables, one might even see that the 'rich man' in the parable may have been going through a 'similar experience.'
Here is another form of burning that goes on presently:
Romans 12:20
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
I could make some interesting elaborations on what this latter means, but to understand that one has to understand who is having the fire heaped on them and where/how that happens.
s
Glad to see you 2 keeping this thread alive
Show me one place in the Old Testament where the word "Devil" is used.
Job 1 said:Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Rev 12 said:And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
1 chron 21 said:And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel
Job 1 said:And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
The words coal and fire are often used to mean "judgement."
The word "sheol" in Hebrew literally means "grave." Hell is not a teaching of Judaism, it is of Pagan origin.
The word "Gehenna" is a symbolic repersentation for destruction.
According to scripture Yahwah takes away the life of the condemned and they are no more.
Revelation 20:14
Then death and (grave) Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Death and the grave are done away with along with the condemned.
Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thingto kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
Now since Yahwah kills the wicked, then how can anyone be alive in Hell to suffer. The dead know nothing.
Hi squint. While translating this parable from the Greek, an interlinear I used had "ferrying" for the greek word #1276 which I had never seen in translations.*snip*
When Jesus warned of the final judgment he pointed to both the flood (WATER) event and the S&G (FIRE) event. I won't deter any deeper into those matters as they are not relevant to the parable in question.
s
There are several,
Satan IS "The" Devil.
In other words EVERY time you read Satan in the Old Testament it's another way of saying "The Devil".
Etc, etc, etc.
Hi squint. While translating this parable from the Greek, an interlinear I used had "ferrying" for the greek word #1276 which I had never seen in translations.
Hebrew 11:29 mentions the Red Sea event and uses the greek word #1276, as does Luke 16:26. Pretty interesting
Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)
Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry, which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
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True. Associative meanings must be applied. Judgment itself can be also be a multifold matter. Matters of judgment unto correction, love, resistance, damnation, etc. Judgment does not automatically equate to 'bad only.'
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Jesus also applied some of these terms in a wider array than the simplicity of a dead body in the ground. There are 'walking dead' and 'walking graves.' Very often these are matters of what is in the mind and heart more than a mere physical matter.
It is debateable to me whether the account in question even involved their actual physical deaths, seeing it as a parable. I say more than likely NOT.
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Of which same are usually temporal i.e. we have no account of the permanent death meaning 'eradication in total' via destruction of ANY evil spirit for example.
Were any of these matters only so simple as to view them in regards to mankind only as that is almost NEVER the case in any of these matters, again using the decipher of all parables.
You have stretched several types of judgment into a single unit, which doesn't work. There are many types of 'continuing judgments' that are and have been employed during the course of human history ALL of which relate to 'evil powers' that are also in operation.
THEN, at the finality of these matters, there is the FINAL JUDGMENT. It is wrong to take what happened in prior judgments such as the flood or at S&G and make them fit the FINALE. The previous are figurative to the finale, but not the same. The finale will be LIKE the previous, only PERMANENT.
Anyone picking up matters of 'judgments' without a very broad range of understandings of the parties, the timeframes and the events and how they relate to each other will quickly come to many divisions none of which will mesh until broader pictures encompassing these matters come forth also.
When Jesus warned of the final judgment he pointed to both the flood (WATER) event and the S&G (FIRE) event. I won't deter any deeper into those matters as they are not relevant to the parable in question.
s
Kind of goes with the Song of Moses in Reve 15/Exodus15 me thinks*snip*
You know lloj, the longer the Word is in us, the more interesting it becomes.
Yes! There was A GREAT CHASM of those WATERS on the RIGHT HAND and on the LEFT hand...very good...and DRY GROUND inbetween where they, the ISRAELITES could cross over but the EGYPTIANS could NOT...heh heh heh...you are getting quite adept, and not by accident!
s
The only "END" I am speaking of is the "Final Judgement."
It was 100% true.
Perhaps you might want to just take a gander at this one Christian commentator's view of it, as he actually says exactly what you just did......he also delves into the Greek much like I did with it....The rich man and Lazarus comes in a string of parables i.e. the 1 lost sheep, the prodigal son, the unjust steward, etc. etc.
The parables contain broader 'universally applicable' meanings for their statements and are not meant to be limited to 'just that one time event.' That is why we still look at them with current day applicability. The principles depicted STILL apply to all of us as delivered in parabolic fashions.
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