Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable (2)

[Meowzltov]

Not sure what you mean by the characters not being historical.

Moses, Abraham and Lazarus are all mentioned in it and the NT..........

The Lazarus in the story was not the same Lazarus talked about elsewhere in the gospels. It was a generic fictional Lazarus. Again, this is a parable, not a historical account.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Lazarus in the story was not the same Lazarus talked about elsewhere in the gospels. It was a generic fictional Lazarus.
Again, this is a parable, not a historical account.

Do you say the same about Moses and Abraham in that parable?

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

John 5:
44
"Ye out of a father, the devil are,
and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing".
45
"Do not think that I shall accuse<2723> you to the Father; there is one who accuses<2723> you — Moses, in whom you trust.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me.

Revelation 12:10
And I hear great voice saying in the Heaven: "Now became the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of the God of us, and the authority of the Christ of Him,
that was cast the Accuser/kathgoroV <2725> of the brothers of us,
the accusing/kathgorwn <2723> them in sight of the God of us day and night.

 

[Mark51]

I'm baffled why anyone would think there is anything difficult to understand about the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
1. It's a parable, not a true story. Which means the characters are not historical. But it also means it's a teaching story. What's it supposed to teach? That there are dire consequences in store for those who do not reach out compassionately to the poor.
2. Parables take place in recognizable real locations. A farmer's field. Jericho. Jerusalem. A typical widows home in second temple era Judea. In this story, we have two settings. The first is the gate to the Rich Man's abode, where Lazarus sits to beg. The second is Gehenna , the temporary hell (or paradise) where sins are purged or good lives are rewarded in preparation for the resurrection. Both are part of reality.

In this illustration, the rich man depicts the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar, Lazarus, depicts the Jewish common people-who were despised and neglected by the clergy-because they were not instructed properly and were lacking in spirituality.-Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. The Bible shows that death can be used symbolically, representing people as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a great change in one’s life or course of action. Compare Romans 6:2, 11-13; 7:4-6; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6.

It is, also, not reasonable or Scriptural to believe that a man suffers torment simply because he is rich, wears good clothing and has plenty to eat. It is not Scriptural to believe that one is blessed with heavenly life just because he is a beggar. Jesus said nothing about the rich man’s living a degraded life worthy of “fiery” punishment; the man’s failing was that he did not feed (spiritually) the poor. Further, Jesus said nothing about Lazarus’ doing good things, things that clearly would merit his going to heaven, which is what some churches claim is the meaning of his being taken to Abraham’s bosom.

Even considering these points of discussion, once a person dies, there is no consciousness: and no one (“Rich man” or “Lazarus“) was resurrected before Jesus.-Psalms 146:4, 115:17; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6; John 3:13 ; Acts 26:23; Colossians 1:18.

 

[Meowzltov]

In this illustration, the rich man depicts the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar, Lazarus, depicts the Jewish common people-who were despised and neglected by the clergy-because they were not instructed properly and were lacking in spirituality.-Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. The Bible shows that death can be used symbolically, representing people as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a great change in one’s life or course of action. Compare Romans 6:2, 11-13; 7:4-6; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6.

It is, also, not reasonable or Scriptural to believe that a man suffers torment simply because he is rich, wears good clothing and has plenty to eat. It is not Scriptural to believe that one is blessed with heavenly life just because he is a beggar. Jesus said nothing about the rich man’s living a degraded life worthy of “fiery” punishment; the man’s failing was that he did not feed (spiritually) the poor. Further, Jesus said nothing about Lazarus’ doing good things, things that clearly would merit his going to heaven, which is what some churches claim is the meaning of his being taken to Abraham’s bosom.

Even considering these points of discussion, once a person dies, there is no consciousness: and no one (“Rich man” or “Lazarus“) was resurrected before Jesus.-Psalms 146:4, 115:17; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6; John 3:13 ; Acts 26:23; Colossians 1:18.

The New Testament warns on many an occasion that wealth is a trap, that the love of money is the root of all evil, that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven and on and on. Blessed are not just the poor in spirit, but blessed are the poor. This is a consistent teaching.

I'm not saying it is absolutely impossible to be a Christian and be wealthy. I'm saying that according to scripture, the odds are against it.

To try to rewrite the text so that the bad guy is religous rather than rich and the good guy is "not religious" (like you?) rather than poor, is a horrible thing to do. We should not be changing scripture. But far worse than that, you are missing the very message that Jesus is trying to teach you.

Instead of putting so much effort into figuring out who the rich an "really is" so that you don't feel so bad, go down to your local soup kitchen and feed lazarus. Then come back and begin to study Torah and the laws regarding tithing (which doesn't just feed the Levites but also the poor) and all the other laws that support the poor. Certain things will become clear to you.
1. Everything we have belongs to God, not to us.
2. Certain of what we have has been entrusted to us for the poor.
3. It is our JOB to see that this gets to the poor.
4. Those who have more, have a much bigger job.

 

[Meowzltov]

Do you say the same about Moses and Abraham in that parable?

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

John 5:
44
"Ye out of a father, the devil are,
and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing".
45
"Do not think that I shall accuse<2723> you to the Father; there is one who accuses<2723> you — Moses, in whom you trust.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me.

Revelation 12:10
And I hear great voice saying in the Heaven: "Now became the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of the God of us, and the authority of the Christ of Him,
that was cast the Accuser/kathgoroV <2725> of the brothers of us,
the accusing/kathgorwn <2723> them in sight of the God of us day and night.

Parables CAN include historical figures who are famous, sometimes doing what is historical, and sometimes doing non-historical. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Lazarus had his head in Abraham's bosom. Never happened -- not historical -- even though Abraham is a historical figure.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In this illustration, the rich man depicts the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar, Lazarus, depicts the Jewish common people-who were despised and neglected by the clergy-because they were not instructed properly and were lacking in spirituality.-Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. The Bible shows that death can be used symbolically, representing people as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a great change in one’s life or course of action. Compare Romans 6:2, 11-13; 7:4-6; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6.

It is, also, not reasonable or Scriptural to believe that a man suffers torment simply because he is rich, wears good clothing and has plenty to eat. It is not Scriptural to believe that one is blessed with heavenly life just because he is a beggar. Jesus said nothing about the rich man’s living a degraded life worthy of “fiery” punishment; the man’s failing was that he did not feed (spiritually) the poor. Further, Jesus said nothing about Lazarus’ doing good things, things that clearly would merit his going to heaven, which is what some churches claim is the meaning of his being taken to Abraham’s bosom.

Even considering these points of discussion, once a person dies, there is no consciousness: and no one (“Rich man” or “Lazarus“) was resurrected before Jesus.-Psalms 146:4, 115:17; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6; John 3:13 ; Acts 26:23; Colossians 1:18.

In this illustration, the rich man depicts the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar, Lazarus, depicts the Jewish common people-who were despised and neglected by the clergy-because they were not instructed properly and were lacking in spirituality.-Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

Excellent post and thanks.
Did anyone notice that the Great City in Revelation 18 is also clothed in Purple and Fine linen?

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:
11 And the Merchants<1713> of the earth are lamenting<2799> and mourning<3996> over Her,
that their cargo<1117> no one is buying anymore.
12 Cargo of gold and silver,
and precious stone and pearl
and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16]

15 The Merchants of these, those being rich from Her,
from afar<3113> shall be standing, because of the fear of Her torment<929>, weeping<2799>, and mourning<3996>,
16 and saying,
Woe! woe! the great City, that was having been arrayed with
fine linen and purple [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:12]