Reward

[Xeno.of.athens]

You do understand that what was "lacking in Christ's afflictions" refers to the suffering of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, right?

I understand it to mean exactly what saint Paul was writing about.

Therefore we also, from the day that we heard it, cease not to pray for you and to beg that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding: That you may walk worthy of God, in all things pleasing; being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God: Strengthened with all might according to the power of his glory, in all patience and longsuffering with joy, Giving thanks to God the Father, who hath made us worthy to be partakers of the lot of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness and hath translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, In whom we have redemption through his blood, the remission of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers. All things were created by him and in him. And he is before all: and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he may hold the primacy: Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father that all fulness should dwell: And through him to reconcile all things unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth and the things that are in heaven. And you, whereas you were some time alienated and enemies in mind in evil works: Yet now he hath reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unspotted and blameless before him: If so ye continue in the faith, grounded and settled, and immoveable from the hope of the gospel which you have heard, which is preached in all the creation that is under heaven: whereof I Paul am made a minister. Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister according to the dispensation of God, which is given me towards you, that I may fulfil the word of God: The mystery which hath been hidden from ages and generations, but now is manifested to his saints, To whom God would make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ, in you the hope of glory. Whom we preach, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. Wherein also I labour, striving according to his working which he worketh in me in power.​

Colossians 1:9-29 DRB

 

[bling]

Read the scriptures to see, but I am not sure you will find a description that is too detailed.

Of course they are, all those in Heaven are saints.

Indeed, all receive their reward, do you object to the term reward? It is used by saint Paul.

I do not object to the use of reward, but the idea some have some greater reward than others in heaven. I do feel we get to heaven with different degrees of Godly type Love, but that comes with growing our Love while here on earth.
We all weir the same garments and have the same crown, heaven is a huge reward, what more would you want?

 

[Clare73]

I understand it to mean exactly what saint Paul was writing about.

Therefore we also, from the day that we heard it, cease not to pray for you and to beg that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding: That you may walk worthy of God, in all things pleasing; being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God: Strengthened with all might according to the power of his glory, in all patience and longsuffering with joy, Giving thanks to God the Father, who hath made us worthy to be partakers of the lot of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness and hath translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, In whom we have redemption through his blood, the remission of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers. All things were created by him and in him. And he is before all: and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he may hold the primacy: Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father that all fulness should dwell: And through him to reconcile all things unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth and the things that are in heaven. And you, whereas you were some time alienated and enemies in mind in evil works: Yet now he hath reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unspotted and blameless before him: If so ye continue in the faith, grounded and settled, and immoveable from the hope of the gospel which you have heard, which is preached in all the creation that is under heaven: whereof I Paul am made a minister. Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister according to the dispensation of God, which is given me towards you, that I may fulfil the word of God: The mystery which hath been hidden from ages and generations, but now is manifested to his saints, To whom God would make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ, in you the hope of glory. Whom we preach, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. Wherein also I labour, striving according to his working which he worketh in me in power.​

Colossians 1:9-29 DRB

Which refers to the suffering/perseuction of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles.

 

[BBAS 64]

While what you quoted is correct I cannot help but think you have missed the point of merit altogether. Let me offer this as helpful information, which I hope you will receive, but should you not receive it I pray God be with you always and that your studies will yield a peaceable fruit of eternal life, which is my prayer for myself also and for all Christians.

The Catholic Church teaches that merit is recompense owed by society to an individual for some action, good or bad, which deserves a reward or a punishment according to the principle of equality 1, 2. However, the Church also teaches that only Christ is capable of meriting in the strict sense, and that the most merit humans can have is condign 3. Condign merit is when, under the impetus of God’s grace, humans perform acts which please him and which he has promised to reward.

Good day,

Give me Biblical Peace with God... and you can keep your denominations errors in their teachings.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Which refers to the suffering/perseuction of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles.

Agreed it does, and saint Paul calls it "filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church" ESV Col 1:24

 

[ViaCrucis]

"And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who is seated on the Throne, Who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who is seated on the Throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the Throne, saying,

'Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for You created all things, and by Your will they existed and were created.'" - Revelation 4:9-11

Every victor who runs the race and makes it to the end shall, in the end, throw down their victor's wreath (στεφάνους) and give all glory to He who is on the Throne.

Whatever was good and pleasing to God shall be for His glory; I having earned nothing of myself, for there is nothing of myself to boast or glory in. Even when, at long last, the race is run, the fight is fought, and the victor's wreath is placed upon my head it shall not be for my glory--but His. He secured me, saved me, kept me, and held me--by His grace alone, by His goodness alone, by His love alone. For Christ alone has won the victory for each of us. He is Victor, we are co-victors because of Him; and He vindicates us by His cross and resurrection. So that we, mere and meager sinners, should be called the sons and daughters of God, joint-heirs with the Holy King Messiah, our Lord Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

Agreed it does, and saint Paul calls it "filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church" ESV Col 1:24

He does, but not in the sense that the cross was insufficient to atone.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

there is nothing of myself to boast or glory in.

Agreed.

All is a gift of God's grace. As Jesus said, "So you also, when you shall have done all these things that are commanded you, say: We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which we ought to do."

 

[Clare73]

Agreed.

All is a gift of God's grace. As Jesus said, "So you also, when you shall have done all these things that are commanded you, say: We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which we ought to do."

Which is precisely why God does it all himself, with absolutely no contribution from us (Ro 4:2, 1 Co 1:29, Eph 2:9),
because he does not give to, nor share with, another his glory (Isa 42:8, 48:11).

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Which is precisely why God does it all himself, with absolutely no contribution from us (Ro 4:2, 1 Co 1:29, Eph 2:9),
because he does not give to, nor share with, another his glory (Isa 42:8, 48:11).

Which is exactly to miss the point about the last Judgement made by the Lord, Jesus, himself, spoken by the very Word of God incarnate, who is the Truth -

And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. And all nations shall be gathered together before him: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry and fed thee: thirsty and gave thee drink? Or when did we see thee a stranger and took thee in? Or naked and covered thee? Or when did we see thee sick or in prison and came to thee? And the king answering shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me. Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger and you took me not in: naked and you covered me not: sick and in prison and you did not visit me. Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to thee? Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen: I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.​

Matthew 25:31-46 DRB
Never pit one scripture against another, never make on passage the enemy of another, because all of the holy scriptures are inspired by God. Keep the faith, keep it intact, believe it all, and you will not go astray.

 

[Clare73]

Which is exactly to miss the point about the last Judgement made by the Lord, Jesus, himself, spoken by the very Word of God incarnate, who is the Truth -

And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. And all nations shall be gathered together before him: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry and fed thee: thirsty and gave thee drink? Or when did we see thee a stranger and took thee in? Or naked and covered thee? Or when did we see thee sick or in prison and came to thee? And the king answering shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me. Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger and you took me not in: naked and you covered me not: sick and in prison and you did not visit me. Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to thee? Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen: I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.​

Matthew 25:31-46 DRB
Never pit one scripture against another, never make on passage the enemy of another, because all of the holy scriptures are inspired by God. Keep the faith, keep it intact, believe it all, and you will not go astray.

Does not contradict anything.

Faith has works, they just don't apply for salvation.
However, they are proof of true faith.
They will be judged by their works, because those works prove their faith, but those works of faith are not what saved them. The faith, apart from its own works, saved them.

For God neither gives to, nor shares with, another his glory. (Isa 42:8, 48:11).

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Does not contradict anything.

Faith has works, they just don't apply for salvation.
However, they are proof of true faith.
They will be judged by their works, because those works prove their faith, but those works of faith are not what saved them. The faith, apart from its own works, saved them.

For God neither gives to, nor shares with, another his glory. (Isa 42:8, 48:11).

Look again -

Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.​

It is their works that the Lord remembers and uses as the basis for his judgement.

 

[Clare73]

Look again -

Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.​

It is their works that the Lord remembers and uses as the basis for his judgement.

What part of Eph 2:8-9 do you not believe?

Works are the proof of saving faith, but they are not saving in themselves.

This is not Xeno.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Works are the proof of saving faith, but they are not saving in themselves.

To the contrary, works with faith save; faith without works kills. And this is Xeno!

 

[Clare73]

To the contrary, works with faith save; faith without works kills. And this is Xeno!

Yes, this is Xeno.

 

[eleos1954]

Saint Paul did works that completed what was lacking in Christ's afflictions - Colossians 1:24 “Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.”

Paul does not mean that there was anything lacking or deficient in the sufferings which Christ endured in making an atonement which was to be supplied by his followers, so that their merits might be added to his in order to secure the salvation of men ; but that there was still much lacking on his part before he should be entirely conformed to the Saviour in his sufferings, and that his present condition was such as rapidly to fill that up.

Paul is able to rejoice in his sufferings because he was counted worthy (as a follower of Christ) to suffer for the sake of Jesus Christ.

Participating in Christ's sufferings has nothing to do with His atoning sacrifice. There is nothing lacking in Jesus. NOTHING.

Paul is not suggesting that his suffering makes up something lacking in the saving power of Christ's death. Rather, he considers his persecution a service, one which Christ left for His followers (His church) to fulfill.

Those following Jesus will indeed experience suffering, but we are to rejoice in that suffering

1 Peter 4:13

But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Paul does not mean

And exactly how do you know what saint Paul means, you did not know him, were not alive when he was, didn't ask him "what do you mean by ... 'I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.'" Your post is an opinion, not an exegesis, nor is it drawn from the writings of people who knew saint Paul, nor from anything written by saint Paul. Opinions are fine, everyone has them, but because of that they need not be accepted as definitive and have very little authority when they are part of a post in CF written by Joe Averages such as I or you.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

For those who like to think that they know what Catholics, and specifically I, believe I offer this video to watch. It answers your objections to the word "merit" and leaves me in peace, in theory. So watch it, vent at it, and leave me in peace, please

 

[eleos1954]

And exactly how do you know what saint Paul means, you did not know him, were not alive when he was, didn't ask him "what do you mean by ... 'I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.'" Your post is an opinion, not an exegesis, nor is it drawn from the writings of people who knew saint Paul, nor from anything written by saint Paul. Opinions are fine, everyone has them, but because of that they need not be accepted as definitive and have very little authority when they are part of a post in CF written by Joe Averages such as I or you.

I know .... Christ was lacking nothing ... also indeed Christ did suffer ... it was His self sacrificing death that provided the way to salvation ... not His suffering.

And exactly how do you know what saint Paul means, you did not know him, were not alive when he was, didn't ask him "what do you mean by ... 'I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.'" Your post is an opinion, not an exegesis, nor is it drawn from the writings of people who knew saint Paul, nor from anything written by saint Paul. Opinions are fine, everyone has them, but because of that they need not be accepted as definitive and have very little authority when they are part of a post in CF written by Joe Averages such as I or you.

And exactly how do you know what saint Paul means, you did not know him, were not alive when he was, didn't ask him "what do you mean by ... 'I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.'" Your post is an opinion, not an exegesis, nor is it drawn from the writings of people who knew saint Paul, nor from anything written by saint Paul. Opinions are fine, everyone has them, but because of that they need not be accepted as definitive and have very little authority when they are part of a post in CF written by Joe Averages such as I or you.

I know .... Christ was lacking nothing ... also indeed Christ did suffer ... it was His self sacrificing death that provided the way to salvation ... not His suffering.

We share in His sufferings .....

1 Peter 4:12-19​

Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. ...

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I know .... Christ was lacking nothing ... also indeed Christ did suffer ... it was His self sacrificing death that provided the way to salvation ... not His suffering.

We share in His sufferings .....

Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Keep studying, God bless and guide you in that work.