Revelations 7...

[visionary]

Back to the original question.... the 144,000 are a number that God has declared will be the perfect example of those who have perfected their Christ like characters. These are the fruits of Jesus's labor, the proof that people can be tranformed, renewed, and pure as Jesus is. The number is little compared what we imagine, but these number come from the tribulation, these people have followed Jesus and Jesus only in heart and spirit. They have the commandments of God and the testimony of jesus in their hearts. Since tribulation has wiped out so many believers, that by the time Jesus returns, there is only a remnant left. When Jesus arrives, 144,000 are alive and ready to go with him, they will say while the others are crying for the rocks to fly on us, they will be saying "Lo, this is our God, we have waited for."

 

[@@Paul@@]

There is a lot more than 144,000 that some out of the great tribulation. what about the rest of the verses?

Rev 7:4-10 KJV
(4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
(5) Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
(6) Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
(7) Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
(8) Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
(9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
(10) And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.​

But John just numbered the 144,000 in verses 4-8 from the twelve tribes of Israel; yet in verse 9 it's a multitude which NO man can number from ALL nations...

AND

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

This "great multitude" is wearing "white robes" which also came out of the "great tribulation".

 

[TasManOfGod]

My concept of the 144,000 has changed over time as I have further dwelved into scripture. Whereas I once believed that they were saved out of tribulation I now believe that they would be perfected by Christ and His saints during His 1000 year reign. Why? Well consider the dynamics of having that exact number from the 12 tribes all established soundly in faith- a huge logistics task. Other scripture supports my belief as well.

 

[visionary]

There is a lot more than 144,000 that some out of the great tribulation. what about the rest of the verses?

Rev 7:4-10 KJV
(4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
(5) Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
(6) Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
(7) Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
(8) Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
(9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
(10) And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.​

But John just numbered the 144,000 in verses 4-8 from the twelve tribes of Israel; yet in verse 9 it's a multitude which NO man can number from ALL nations...

AND

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

This "great multitude" is wearing "white robes" which also came out of the "great tribulation".

Amen....very good point..that is good news....for not only out of the tribes of Israel but out of every nation, kingdom, and country will God's people be gathered.

 

[inhimitrust]

How the heck can the 144000 be "jewish" if they are from all 12 Tribes?!?! They were all hebrews, except after the split, the 2 southern tribes of the House of Judah became jews, the other 10 got divorced and scatted all over the world with the gentiles, then later in 70ad, all the rest got scattered. Seems to me the 144000 are sealed from the destruction of a great city that is being burned and turned desolate, Jerusalem. To take 144000 literally is not biblically sound anyway, just as not taking the 1000 yrs as literal. If revelation isn't the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad, then it is a future destruction of a "great holy city" with people throwing "dust on their heads" afterwards, and only jews did that in the OT. Go figure.

 

[G4m]

Ok im still very new to christianity and understanding all thats said in the bible so i could use some help on this.

Revelation 7 explains how '144,000' people are chosen by God.

I have a Jehovas witness friend and dont quite know how to answer his claims that only 140,000 people will ever go to heaven. Personally i dont take the 144,000 literally as with a lot of examples with numbers used in the bible.

Some help please

Here is some of what I've studied about the 144,000:

The 144,000 described in the book of Revelation could definitely be looked at as a remnant, just due to their size. Also they are a remnant of Israel, as they are described as being from the twelve tribes of Israel. However, these tribes here do not directly align with those described in Genesis 49. Manasseh has replaced Dan.



Revelation 7
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.



A description of the 144,00 is that there is no lie found in their mouths, and they are blameless. Interestingly this same trait is given to a remnant of Israel in the book of Zephaniah:



Zephaniah 3
12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.
13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.



No lie is found in there mouth because they have the full measure of the Spirit of truth, the seal, because of Jesus who is the truth!



John 6
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Isaiah 53
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

1 Peter 2
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


In Micah the remnant is lead by their King who breaks open the way



Micah 2
11 If a man walking in the spirit and falsehood do lie, saying, I will prophesy unto thee of wine and of strong drink; he shall even be the prophet of this people.
12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.
13 The breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and have passed through the gate, and are gone out by it: and their king shall pass before them, and the LORD on the head of them.



Jesus declared Himself as the gate



John 10
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.



There is also their virginity to consider:



Revelation 14
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Romans 7
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Ezekiel 23
7 Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

9 Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.

Hosea 5
3 I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now, O Ephraim, thou committest whoredom, and Israel is defiled.

Jeremiah 3
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Jeremiah 3
14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Malachi 2
11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.





The remnant is described as not being God’s people, but then becoming His people and being refined:



Zechariah 13
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

1 Peter 1
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 2
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Hosea 1
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

 

[G4m]

Think I may have found why Dan is not listed, can anyone else help?

1 Kings 12
26 And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David:
27 If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah.
28 Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
29 And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan.
30 And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan.
31 And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi.
32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.
33 So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.

1 Kings 13
33 After this thing Jeroboam returned not from his evil way, but made again of the lowest of the people priests of the high places: whosoever would, he consecrated him, and he became one of the priests of the high places.
34 And this thing became sin unto the house of Jeroboam, even to cut it off, and to destroy it from off the face of the earth.

Amos 8
14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.

 

[eksesar]

Hello G4m

So? this 144K LIteral or Figurative?

Eksesar

 

[G4m]

Hello G4m

So? this 144K LIteral or Figurative?

Eksesar

Hey

Not 100% sure.

In scripture sometimes numbers can be figurative, or even meaningless as a literal number.

The fact that they seem to be so aligned with the remnant of Israel in scripture, would point to the possibility of it being a literal amount, due to the small size (ie remnant).

The 144,000 are also contrasted with the great uncountable multitude. Probably, another reason it could be a literal number.

Also in revelation there are already seemingly, instances of literal numbers.

So, I'd probably lean to literal, unless there is good evidence to say figurative.

What is your take on it?

 

[Iosias]

...the 144,000 are Jewish remnant spared from death during the Great Tribulation.They have been sealed by The Lamb and have his mark on their forehead to protect them.They will preach the Gospel of The Kingdom during the Great Tribulation.

 

[Iosias]

Hello G4m

So? this 144K LIteral or Figurative?

Eksesar

Literal!