Revelation in chart form

Revealing Times said:

And like I stated, your question is OFF because being the Anti-Christ is NOT A TITLE, thus your question therefore is a rather benign type argument, harmless, but yet confusing..

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The term Antichrist is formed by adding the prefix "Anti" to the term Christ. "Christ the King of Israel", Mark 15:32. Why is the King of Israel not a title to an office or position?

seventysevens said:

My reference to DNA is simply that it was not even heard of let alone understand that such a thing could exist to ID a person heritage that way , for thousands of years people knew their heritage without even knowing that DNA existed , surely in modern 21st century times people will say it is important - but during the early periods of diaspora people knew their heritage without DNA testing as there was no DNA testing that existed but they knew whether or not they were true descendants of Israel
It was Gods command to Israel to Not marry outside of Israelite people ,

Samson was not to be with women he was with as the same was with David - then there is the matter of when the Gentile church being grafted into the Israeli family it was being discussed if the Gentile church should follow the same rules and laws that the Israeli people did -some said they should some said they need not to and it was decided that the Gentiles who accepted Jesus as messiah did not have to be compelled to follow all the commands and rules and regulations that were placed on Israelite 's just because they accepted Jesus as messiah - simply because the Gentiles are not Jewish or Israeli bloodline and DNA was not even a thought during those days but yet they knew their heritage . Without very extensive writing - at this point in time to understand some prophetic writings it is important to understand that before Jesus returns there is a distinction between Israel and the church- Body of Christ - but after Jesus returns it will no longer be relevant - in some ways now it is relevant and yet in some ways it is not relevant -but to understand some things it is important- but due to how long it takes to explain it I will not get it to that long of description

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It was God's command to not marry unbelieving aliens. But if such an individual submitted in faith and obedience to God's requirements under the Old Covenant, that individual was accorded the same spiritual privileges as any faithful and obedient Israelite. God has always known everyone's heritage and bloodline. But those have never been criteria for His acceptance and blessing.

There are numerous OT examples of how God slew by the thousands Israelites who had the "approved" heritage and bloodline, but who disobeyed and rebelled. Conversely, aliens such as Rahab were recognized and cited over 1,000 years later for their faith and obedience.

God's criteria have never changed.

Revealing Times said:

The Beast is the E.U. President

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The EU is the fourth empire. The end times version of the Roman empire.

In Revelation 13, the composite description of the beast coming out of the sea includes lion, the bear, the leopard - the first three empires. But it doesn't include in its make up the beast with the iron teeth and nails of brass, because it itself is the fourth empire.

The little horn in Daniel 7 comes out of the fourth empire, in the text - not seventh empire.

Descendants of Israel knew who they were thousands of years before DNA was ever discovered -it is not required to know how much DNA is in a person to determine if they are descendants of Israel \During the diaspora of the past people knew if they were
descendants and did have nor need a DNA test to know , just because a person with the proper bloodline disobeyed God did not omit them from being a descendant - the Church known as the Bride of Christ did not exist during the OT -



if a prince of England marries a peasant woman of America and they adopt children from Africa - in one sense they are all one family and while the adopted children mat receive some of financial inheritance it does not make them the bloodline to be next in line to become prince or king or queen of England

jgr said:

It was God's command to not marry unbelieving aliens. But if such an individual submitted in faith and obedience to God's requirements under the Old Covenant, that individual was accorded the same spiritual privileges as any faithful and obedient Israelite. God has always known everyone's heritage and bloodline. But those have never been criteria for His acceptance and blessing.

There are numerous OT examples of how God slew by the thousands Israelites who had the "approved" heritage and bloodline, but who disobeyed and rebelled. Conversely, aliens such as Rahab were recognized and cited over 1,000 years later for their faith and obedience.

God's criteria have never changed.

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Douggg said:

The horns and heads are not on the harlot.

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But chapter 17 is about the HARLOT BEING JUDGED !!

Rev. 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: {CHAPTER 17 IS ABOUT THE Judgment of the harlot/Harlot !!}

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

This chapter is about the Harlot being JUDGED and her position via the kings. She rode their backs signifying she was a part of their kingdoms feeding them FALSE RELIGIOUS NOTIONS along the way, but of course she has never had any power over the Kingdoms in ANY WISE !! This just in, this is Gods way of telling those that say the Harlot is the RCC (which it is not) that the Religious side has NO POWER over the Horns nor over the Heads, that is Satan (over the Heads/World powers) and the Beast (over the 10 Horns/10 Kings).

You confuse what each chapter is representing, then you claim they are different. They are not.

All three are about the World Governments over ISRAEL at VARIOUS TIMES !! The first is showing in Rev. ch. 12 that Satan is over all the Kingdoms of this earth, just as he told Jesus in Luke ch. 4. The 2nd is showing in Rev. 13 that the Beast/Little Horn is over the 10 Kings. The 3rd is showing in Rev. ch 17 that the Harlot is co-mingled with the Seven Headed Beast and 10 Kings BUT HAS NO POWER over anything they do, hence she is even killed off by them in this very chapter !! The Crowns are designating POWER !! The Dragon has POWER !! The Beast has POWER !! The Harlot has NO POWER !! Simple as that brother Douggg.

Douggg said:

The term Antichrist is formed by adding the prefix "Anti" to the term Christ. "Christ the King of Israel", Mark 15:32. Why is the King of Israel not a title to an office or position?

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Anti means AGAINST...............................You can try and fudge it all you want, it means AGAINST. And the Anti-Christ WILL NEVER be the King of Israel, the scripture tells us that, but you just refuse to receive it brother.

Douggg said:

The EU is the fourth empire. The end times version of the Roman empire.

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No it is not, Read Daniel 7:11, tell me how Rome is cast into hell !! The Beast is cast into HELL. Rome is DEAD it suffered the Mortal Wound. The New Beast arises with the 10 Horns out of the Fourth Beasts HEAD !! The 6th Beast has FALLEN before the 7th Beast that is to come ARRIVES.

The E.U. is where the BEAST Arises.

Douggg said:

In Revelation 13, the composite description of the beast coming out of the sea includes lion, the bear, the leopard - the first three empires. But it doesn't include in its make up the beast with the iron teeth and nails of brass, because it itself is the fourth empire.

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Yes it does, I have given this to this board umpteen times.

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion {Babylon} and the dragon gave him his power {Satan}, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death (ROME); and his deadly wound was healed (Anti-Christ/Little Horn....Becomes the BEAST HERE): and all the world wondered after the beast.

Verse 2 has all of the Kingdoms inverted, maybe Jesus and John are looking back in time thus the Leopard comes first, then the Bear, then the Lion ?? !!

Then we have Rome who suffered the Mortal Wound, BUT WHY? Because Israel was NO MORE a nation, God stated in Ezekiel that Israel would become as Dead Men's Bones and thus God saw them as DEAD....He dispersed them unto all the world and turned His back on Israel for almost 2000 years !! There can be NO BEAST when there is NO ISRAEL !! Open you eyes here brother. The Seven Headed Beast is a FIGURATIVE BEAST, thus the Mortal Wound is Figurative. When Israel was dispersed the World over the Beast (Rome) ceased being a Beast over Israel RIGHT? Of course I am right, how can you lord over a nation that is DEAD ?

After nearly 2000 years, God brought Israel back to life, just like He told Israel he was going to do in the END TIMES....Its right there in the scriptures brother. Son of man, can these bones live again? Thou knowest O Lord !! Amen. Yes they can and yes they did come alive again, thus we can now have the LAST BEAST...........Only now, 2000 some odd years after Rome Ceased being a Beast.

The Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel and becomes the LAST BEAST and thus the Mortal Wound is Healed !!

Douggg said:

The little horn in Daniel 7 comes out of the fourth empire, in the text - not seventh empire.

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Two Empires preceded Babylon, (Egypt and Assyria). He arises out of the Fourth Beasts HEAD. Which means in their territory. He is the 7th Beast thus the King that is YET TO COME, the 6th Beast will FALL so says Rev. 17 and Dan. ch. 7. Thus the 7th Head is the coming Anti-Christ who becomes the BEAST when he Conquers Jerusalem.

Revealing Times said:

But chapter 17 is about the HARLOT BEING JUDGED !!

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It doesn't change that the heads and horns are not on the harlot.

In Revelation 17:8, is there anyone at the time of John wondering after the beast? No. Certainly not the ten kings, because it says they have not received their kingdom back in John's day.

In Revelation 17, the beast is still in the pit - first century. In Revelation 12, the beast is still in the bottomless pit with the 7 years in Revelation 12 still ahead. But the heads have their crowns - meaning king #7 is in place right before the 7 years begin.

In Revelation 13, the person who is king #7 will have been killed and brought back to life right before the 42 month begin.

That person is in Isaiah 14:18-20. That person is a Jew, an abominable branch. It is not the Roman Empire being brought back to life. When the person is brought back to life, he becomes the beast.

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Boy, a lot of blind leading the blind with their private interpretations going on here.

Revealing Times said:

But chapter 17 is about the HARLOT BEING JUDGED !!

Rev. 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: {CHAPTER 17 IS ABOUT THE Judgment of the harlot/Harlot !!}

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

This chapter is about the Harlot being JUDGED and her position via the kings. She rode their backs signifying she was a part of their kingdoms feeding them FALSE RELIGIOUS NOTIONS along the way, but of course she has never had any power over the Kingdoms in ANY WISE !! This just in, this is Gods way of telling those that say the Harlot s the RCC (which it is not) that the Religious side has NO POWER over the Horns nor over the Heads, that is Satan (over the Heads/World powers) and the Beast )over the 10 Horns/10 Kings).

You confuse what each chapter is representing, then you claim they are different. They are not.

All three are about the World Governments over ISRAEL at VARIOUS TIMES !! The first is showing in Rev. ch. 12 is showing that Satan is over all Kingdoms of this earth, just as he told Jesus in Luke 4. The 2nd showing in Rev. 13 is showing that the Beast/Little Horn is over the 10 Kings. The 3rd Showing in Rev. ch 17 is showing that the Harlot is co-mingled with the Seven Headed Beast and 10 Kings BUT HAS NO POWER over anything they do, hence she is even killed off by them in this very chapter !! The Crowns are designating POWER !! The Dragon has POWER !! The Beast has POWER !! The Harlot has NO POWER !! Simple as that brother Douggg.


Anti means AGAINST...............................You can try and fudge it all you want, it means AGAINST. And the Anti-Christ WILL NEVER be the King of Israel, the scripture tells us that, but you just refuse to receive it brother.


No it is not, Read Daniel 7:11, tell me how Rome is cast int hell !! The Beast is cast into HELL. Rome is DEAD it suffered the Mortal Wound. The New Beast arises with the 10 Horns out of the Fourth Beasts HEAD !! The 6th Beast has FALLEN before the 7th Beast that is to come ARRIVES.

The E.U. is where the BEAST Arises.



Yes it does, I have give this to this board umpteen times.

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lionBabyon) and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death (ROME); and his deadly wound was healed (Anti-Christ/Little Horn....Becomes the BEAST HERE): and all the world wondered after the beast.

Verse 2 has all of the Kingdoms inverted, maybe Jesus and John are looking back in time this the Leopard comes first, then the Bear, then the Lion ?? !!

Then we have Rome who suffered the Mortal Wound, BUT WHY? Because Israel was NO MORE a nation, God stated in Ezekiel that Israel would become as Dead Men's Bones and thus God saw them as DEAD....He dispersed them unto all the world and turned His back on Israel for almost 2000 years !! There can be NO BEAST when there is NO ISRAEL !! Open you eyes here brother. The Seven Headed Beast is a FIGURATIVE BEAST, thus the Mortal Wound is Figurative. When Israel was dispersed the World over the Beast (Rome) ceased being a Beast over Israel RIGHT? Of course I am right, how can you Lord over a nation that is DEAD ?

After nearly 2000 years, God brought Israel back to life, just like He told Israel he was going to do in the END TIMES....Its right there in the scriptures brother. Son of man, can these bones love again? Thou knowest O Lord !! Amen. Yes the can and yes they did come alive again, thus we can now have the LAST BEAST...........Only now, 2000 years after Rome Ceased being a Beast.

The Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel and becomes the LAST BEAST and thus the Mortal Wound is Healed !!


Two Empires preceded Babylon, (Egypt and Assyria). He arises out of the Fourth Beasts HEAD. Which means in their territory. He is the 7th Beast thus the King that is YET TO COME, the 6th Beast will FALL so says Rev. 17 and Dan. ch. 7.

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Jerusalem Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

1.) Revelation 18:16KJV
"The Great City" Babylon

Revelation 11:8KJV
"The Great City" where our Lord was crucified "Jerusalem"

2.) Revelation 18:16KJV
She Wore linen, purple, scarlet, gold?

Exodus 39KJV
Jewish Levitical Priesthood, linen, purple, scarlet, gold.

3.) Revelation 18:24KJV
She's guilty of the "Prophets Blood"

Matthew 23:37KJV
"Jerusalem" Thou That Killest The Prophets.

4.) Revelation 16:12-21KJV
Nations draw to Jerusalem/Israel/Megiddo, Earthquake Destroys "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem.

5.) Matthew 23:32KJV
Jerusalem, The Cup of Wrath Is Filled.

Revelation 16:19KJV, Revelation 18:6KJV
The Cup Of Gods Wrath Is Poured Out, "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem

6.) Revelation 17:9KJV
The harlot sits on seven mountains/hills.

Jerusalem sits on seven mountains/hills.

7.) Revelation 17:1-4 & 18:9KJV
Mystery Babylon Fornicates with the Kings of the world, playing the Harlot.

Ezekiel 16KJV
Jerusalem fornicates with the Kings of the world, and plays the Harlot.

8.) Revelation 17KJV
The Woman/harlot/Jerusalem rides the Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin

Daniel 11:36-37KJV
The Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin will be Jewish/Hebrew in decent. His fathers worshipped the true Hebrew God.

2 Kings 21:22KJV, 2 Chronicles 33:12KJV

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers"

Jerusalem Is The harlot Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

Truth7t7 said:

Jerusalem Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

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No, that is not what the Lord prophesied.

The Lord spoke of things all the time in Spiritual terms, symbolism, cryptic imagery, types and as shadows. It's not as if it's some new methodology never seen in the Bible before or something new that has just been invented.

Luke 3:3-6

• "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
• As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
• Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
• And all flesh shall see the salvation of God."

You didn't think Isaiah, under the inspiration of God, was actually declaring that a physical valley in Israel or Mountains or plains would be resettled, did you?

Isaiah 40:3

• "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."

You didn't think Isaiah was talking about someone coming who was so talented in construction that he would build physical highways out in the Desert for the Lord to walk on, did you? There's nothing new in this interpretation. The Jerusalem in view is NOT a physical city in the Middle East, but a spiritual city where the nations/gentiles to enter into that they might worship God.

The New Testament congregation of Israel is the Church. She is a physical representation of the spiritual kingdom on earth! This is who God said is Mystery Babylon who was once a faithful representation of His Kingdom has NOW BECOME the home of the devils - the false prophets and christs with Spirit of Antichrist ruling therein! She is MYSTERY because many Christians will not believe who she is unless she is Rome, New York, or even physical city of Jerusalem! Keep in mind that in Revelation 18:4, God has called His choosen Elect who can "see the abomination of desolation" standing in the church to come out of her, leaving the church to external or corporate believers who are NOT saved to be remain deceived by Satan as judgment for her unfaithfulness. Selah!

After the Lord Jesus Christ defeated Satan at the Cross, the whole world (Gentiles) would be able to come and worship God in spirit and truth IN THIS Holy City Jerusalem, which is His spiritual habitation. The City called by His name. The City of David, their King.

Revelation 21:2

• "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Revelation 21:24

• "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."

The New Testament Holy City Jerusalem is the Church, representing this bride of Christ. The tabernacle sacrifice feast or celebration wherein we can fellowship with God. The Prophesy of the nations worship at Jerusalem is not talking about a literal City in the Middle East anymore than John the Baptist made literal crooked roads straight. It is a truth spiritually discerned of a spiritual city whose builder and maker is God. Selah!

TribulationSigns said:

No, that is not what the Lord prophesied.

The Lord spoke of things all the time in Spiritual terms, symbolism, cryptic imagery, types and as shadows. It's not as if it's some new methodology never seen in the Bible before or something new that has just been invented.

Luke 3:3-6

• "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
• As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
• Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
• And all flesh shall see the salvation of God."

You didn't think Isaiah, under the inspiration of God, was actually declaring that a physical valley in Israel or Mountains or plains would be resettled, did you?

Isaiah 40:3

• "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."

You didn't think Isaiah was talking about someone coming who was so talented in construction that he would build physical highways out in the Desert for the Lord to walk on, did you? There's nothing new in this interpretation. The Jerusalem in view is NOT a physical city in the Middle East, but a spiritual city where the nations/gentiles to enter into that they might worship God.

The New Testament congregation of Israel is the Church. She is a physical representation of the spiritual kingdom on earth! This is who God said is Mystery Babylon who was once a faithful representation of His Kingdom has NOW BECOME the home of the devils - the false prophets and christs with Spirit of Antichrist ruling therein! She is MYSTERY because many Christians will not believe who she is unless she is Rome, New York, or even physical city of Jerusalem! Keep in mind that in Revelation 18:4, God has called His choosen Elect who can "see the abomination of desolation" standing in the church to come out of her, leaving the church to external or corporate believers who are NOT saved to be remain deceived by Satan as judgment for her unfaithfulness. Selah!

After the Lord Jesus Christ defeated Satan at the Cross, the whole world (Gentiles) would be able to come and worship God in spirit and truth IN THIS Holy City Jerusalem, which is His spiritual habitation. The City called by His name. The City of David, their King.

Revelation 21:2

• "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Revelation 21:24

• "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."

The New Testament Holy City Jerusalem is the Church, representing this bride of Christ. The tabernacle sacrifice feast or celebration wherein we can fellowship with God. The Prophesy of the nations worship at Jerusalem is not talking about a literal City in the Middle East anymore than John the Baptist made literal crooked roads straight. It is a truth spiritually discerned of a spiritual city whose builder and maker is God. Selah!

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There is a lot of symbolism below, gates, walls, foundations, measurements?

Revelation 21 King James Version (KJV)
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Douggg said:

It doesn't change that the heads and horns are not on the harlot.

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No and it doesn't change why their is NO CROWNS.......The Harlot is not in POWER.

The Beast is in power of the HORNS thus CROWNS on the HORNS.

The Dragon is in power over the HEADS thus CROWNS on the HEADS.

TribulationSigns said:

Boy, a lot of blind leading the blind with their private interpretations going on here.

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Over your pay-grade here..........

Truth7t7 said:

Jerusalem Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

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The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION......Not a City.

Truth7t7 said:

1.) Revelation 18:16KJV
"The Great City" Babylon

Revelation 11:8KJV
"The Great City" where our Lord was crucified "Jerusalem"

2.) Revelation 18:16KJV
She Wore linen, purple, scarlet, gold?

Exodus 39KJV
Jewish Levitical Priesthood, linen, purple, scarlet, gold.

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How is it SEEING you can't see and HEARING you can't hear?

The Bible calls multiple cities GREAT CITIES. You trying to pigeon hole God is kind of SAD.

Rev. 17:18 tells us that that GREAT CITY was what JOHN SAW......What did John see? The Vision only lasts for four verses, verses 3-6, and John saw FOUR DESCRIPTIONS, one of them were Babylon the Great !!

So the clue us obvious, but people, HUMANS have AGENDAS and they can't lay their pride/agendas at the door and enter in to an objective viewpoint, thus its very sad.

Rev. 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. {....5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.}

Babylon the Great is the CLUE HERE, not Jerusalem and BABYLON Stands for all the World Governments under Satan for ALL TIME. And the Harlot was a part of this original Babylon. Thus she is seen as a PART of Babylon, the Mother of Harlots.

She is ALL FALSE RELIGION.....UNTIL YOU GE THAT RIGHT, EVERYTHING ELSE IS GOING TO BE WRONG-TRACKED !!

Truth7t7 said:

There is a lot of symbolism below, gates, walls, foundations, measurements?

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You are right. There are a lot of symbolism in the chapter which calls for spiritual discernment. So tell me what do you think the gates, walls, foundations, and measurements signify of?

Of course, it is not talking about a physical city of Jerusalem.

Revealing Times said:

The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION......Not a City.

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Ahem...

All who dwell in the world are not secret/mystery Babylon, else we have contradiction after contradiction. Babylon signifies a city "in" the world, not the world itself. The kings of the world fornicate with "this city" Babylon. You can't have the world fornicating with itself. There is no symbolism in Scripture that supports that.

Revelation 14:8

• "And there followed another messenger, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

Again, clearly God illustrates this woman is a great city in the world, a city that the nations "of the world" drink her wine and (like Israel before them) commit spiritual fornication. She is a spiritual Harlot.

Revelation 17:5

• "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

God calls her that great city, not that great earth or world. Here in this verse God calls her the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, "not" the earth itself. That great city and a Harlot is the exact same words God called "His congregation" Israel because of their spiritual unfaithfulness. Again, Scripture interprets Scripture.

Look at an example about Cain being the one who slew Abel,

Genesis 4:9-11

• "And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
• And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
• And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;"

The message is not that the world can drink blood, or that the world is responsible for Abel's blood, but that "Cain" is. The blood Cain spilled on the ground in symbolism is a witness against him. God saying the earth is drinking it is a metaphor, not a declaration that the world is responsible.

When God says now you are cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, He is simply saying that because you spilled blood on the earth, the earth will not yield to him its increase as before. It is as a "testimony" to his sin, not that the earth is responsible for Abel's murder. This also confirmed in the very next verse, 12.

The portrait painted here is that Cain is the first unbeliever of God's people, the first "brother" to rise up WITHIN the family against the Lord's chosen and slay him. Cain is the first viper for he is part of the generation (or family) of evil, the first of the line of those who hate and are offended by the Lord's servants. There would be many more. This is also illustrated in Israel when Christ called those of His people a family of evil. If we consider the mystery wisely, Christ tells us who Babylon is and why all he blood from Abel to his time is required of her.

Matthew 23:31-35

• "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
• Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
• Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
• Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
• That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
• Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."

Christ didn't claim that all the blood from Abel to Zechariah would be upon the whole world nor those who heard it in 33AD. Christ didn't say that the world was the seed, the family, the generation of them that killed the prophets. Christ didn't say the world was responsible for killing, persecuting, crucifying and scourging the prophets in their synagogues, Christ said perfectly clearly that it was these people, "His people," who were responsible for this, and who did all these things, and who the blood of Abel was upon. Not the world, them--the unfaithful of His own very congregation. The children of those who slew the prophets. That generation or family. They are spiritually Babylon! Selah!

How were "they" responsible for the blood of Abel? Just as Christ explained, they were the children (family) of those who killed the prophets. They are part of spiritual family of Satan WITHIN the congregation of Israel which existed in the Old Testament AND the New Testament. Even though they protested that they would never do such a thing, Christ knew they had the exact same murderous, wicked heart of their father the devil. And that congregation is measured the same as their fathers, and would become a cage of devils. This was all proven of course as they ended up having Christ crucified, fulfilling Christ's words. They were of that "same" evil generation or family that Cain was of. It was the Jews, the people who crucified their Prince, Christ! The people of the prince, Daniel 9:26! The whole unfaithful family of Gods congregation (not the world) were the ones killing God's prophets. Read Bible history, it's all right there illustrating that the major antagonists of God's servants were God's own people. The rebellion was brother against brother, Israel against Israel, The Jews against their God. These verses 34 and 35 could have been taken right out of the text of God concerning Babylon, because they are nearly identical. Babylon is the unfaithful congregation, the harlot, "the great harlot" which God called Israel again and again. Scripture interprets Scripture. Babylon is a contradiction if it represents the world.

Luke 11:47-51

• "Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
• Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
• Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
• That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
• From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation."

It shall be required of "this family/generation," all of this generation of vipers, all of this evil and adulterous generation or family of Satan (Adulterous since they are betrothed to God). The children of the devil residing with the Lord's servants and slaying them. They are the ones the church should be wary of, not the world! Not Rome. Not New York! Selah! The world isn't going to kill the witnesses of the church, it is the very people, especially the professed Christians, of the church itself, as spiritually Babylon! Get it?! And why is she called "mystery" Babylon? For the exact reason that so many of the church cannot see who she is. Secret Babylon because few recognize her as the unfaithful church. Like you and Truth7t7, They're too busy claiming she's America, Iraq, the world, Rome, the world system, Mecca, London Royal Bank of Scotland, Jersualem, the list is endless. But those are all private interpretations. God interprets the harlot as His congregation, His people. Period!

Revelation 17:7

• "And the messenger said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

Think about it, if Babylon is the world, who is the Beast with 10 horns (10 kings) that carries her? The Messenger of the Covenant will explain what is meant by the symbolism of this great city that is now full of abominations, and the secret meaning including the beast and horns and rules. But it is a mystery for a reason, it's in symbolism for a reason, just as Christ said of Israel, that seeing they will see and not understand. The "Revelation" of the mystery is for saints who let Scripture interpret Scripture. Cain, Esau, Judas, etc, they're all of the same generation and the blood of the prophets are required both of them, and of these today, like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, or any professed christians with false doctrines, of that same generation. The generation that will not pass until all is fulfilled when Christ returns!

Revealing Times said:

No and it doesn't change why their is NO CROWNS.......The Harlot is not in POWER.

The Beast is in power of the HORNS thus CROWNS on the HORNS.

The Dragon is in power over the HEADS thus CROWNS on the HEADS.


Over your pay-grade here..........

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The Harlot has no bearing on why there are no crowns on the heads and horns in Revelation 17.

The Dragon is in power over the HEADS thus CROWNS on the HEADS.

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I am assuming you are talking about Revelation 12. If so, then why doesn't tthe dragon have power over the heads in Revelation 13? There are no crowns on the heads in Revelation 13.

Douggg said:

The Harlot has no bearing on why there are no crowns on the heads and horns in Revelation 17.

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Yea it does the chapter starts out by telling you who the chapter is about the JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT HARLOT !! Now you seeing that is on you, not me, I can't make you see the obvious I can only point it out. Of course you have this "IDEA" tat all three are different so you have to hold to your previous understanding, of course.

Douggg said:

I am assuming you are talking about Revelation 12. If so, then why doesn't tthe dragon have power over the heads in Revelation 13? There are no crowns on the heads in Revelation 13.

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How does an engineer not get these basic points brother? My whole POINT was that Rev. 13 is about the BEASTS power and Rev. 12 is about the DRAGONS power. The Subject of Rev. 12 is the Dragon or Satan having power over World Kingdoms and the subject of Rev. 13 is the Beast having power over the 10 Kings that follow him his making up HIS KINGDOM.....Rev. 12 is pointing unto the Dragons Kingdoms.

Thus Rev. 17 is about the Harlot being Judged.

TribulationSigns said:

Ahem...

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Ahem...why do you copy and paste? Do you not have any ideas of your own? If you started actually studying on your own the Holy Spirit might (JUST MIGHT) reveal things to you, instead you re a follower of men's ideas. That is what Copy and Paste tells me about a person.

TribulationSigns said:

All who dwell in the world are not secret/mystery Babylon,

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There is NO MYSTERY Babylon, read the bible and you would know that. In verse 7 READ WHAT IT SAYS....Then get back with me....you will see why there is NO MYSTERY any longer, and by reading verse 5 you will also understand it was NEVER Mystery Babylon to start with, it was Mystery, (COMMA) then Babylon the Great.....these are FOUR DESCRIPTORS of the Harlot, yet you don't get that, you actually think these is a Mystery Babylon !! Read verse 7....tell why there is NO MYSTERY.

TribulationSigns said:

else we have contradiction after contradiction. Babylon signifies a city "in" the world, not the world itself. The kings of the world fornicate with "this city" Babylon. You can't have the world fornicating with itself. There is no symbolism in Scripture that supports that.

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No, you just don't understand METAPHORS as in a Star means an ANGEL as in a Seven Headed Beast means Seven World Kingdoms as in a Grasshopper means a Demon Spirit, etc. etc. etc. Babylon is never to be inhabited again. John SAW BABYLON THE GREAT !! But that comes against your theory that there is ONE CITY that will be Judged even though that makes ZERO SENSE, God is going to judge all of mankind is He not?

Babylon represent FALSE GOVERNANCE just like the Harlot represents FALSE RELIGION. The Kings of the World have all been Anti-God and PRO FALSE GODS !! From Babylon, to Greece, to Rome until this very day, they refuse to serve God in Governments, but worship FALSE GODS !! The Kings take in the WINE of the harlot Spirit, whereas we Christians take in the WINE of the Holy Spirit. GET IT BROTHER ? I guess I should be patient, you may have never heard these things.

TribulationSigns said:

Revelation 14:8

• "And there followed another messenger, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

Again, clearly God illustrates this woman is a great city in the world, a city that the nations "of the world" drink her wine and (like Israel before them) commit spiritual fornication. She is a spiritual Harlot.

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The she in this instance is False Governance under Satan who is over WORLD GOVERNMENTS (Luke 4). I can prove once and for all that Babylon and the Harlot is TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES if you will just pat close attention here its very obvious what they are. WATCH THIS CLOSELY:

Rev. 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Rev. 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

So the Kings in Rev. 17 HATE THE HARLOT and Burn her.....but the Kings in Rev. 18 CRY and LAMENT at the burning and destruction of Babylon !! Proving of course that the HARLOT and BABYLON are two different entities just like I stated.

The Harlot (ALL FALSE RELIGION) rides the BEAST (All False Government under Satan) and Babylon is the HEAD of Gold so to speak. Babylon is a METAPHOR for the Worldly Kingdoms of Satan. This is proven again by readying the Armageddon battle in Rev. 16:9, God calls ALL OF THE NATIONS he defeats..........Babylon !!

Rev. 16:19 And the great city(Jerusalem/Earthquake/Jesus Lands) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: (See verses 12-14) and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

So who were the NATIONS that God saw as BABYLON THE GREAT? See verses 12-14

Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So its the WHOLE WORLD !! I am not just telling you things I d not know brother, I follow not men, but God, dig in and stop following men. Don't follow any men, the Spirit must say this is truth, and the word must affirm it to be truth. The Kings of the East is Iraq, Iran, etc, etc.

TribulationSigns said:

Revelation 17:5

• "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

God calls her that great city, not that great earth or world. Here in this verse God calls her the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, "not" the earth itself. That great city and a Harlot is the exact same words God called "His congregation" Israel because of their spiritual unfaithfulness. Again, Scripture interprets Scripture.

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Its a METAPHOR of course.

Revealing Times said:

Yea it does the chapter starts out by telling you who the chapter is about the JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT HARLOT !! Now you seeing that is on you, not me, I can't make you see the obvious I can only point it out. Of course you have this "IDEA" tat all three are different so you have to hold to your previous understanding, of course.

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The harlot has nothing to do with the no crowns on the heads and horns on the beast in that chapter.

My whole POINT was that Rev. 13 is about the BEASTS power and Rev. 12 is about the DRAGONS power. The Subject of Rev. 12 is the Dragon or Satan having power over World Kingdoms and the subject of Rev. 13 is the Beast having power over the 10 Kings that follow him his making up HIS KINGDOM.....Rev. 12 is pointing unto the Dragons Kingdoms.

Thus Rev. 17 is about the Harlot being Judged.

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So according to your convention, in Revelation 17, Satan has no power over any of the 7 kings in the first century? How is the Harlot depowering Satan? Can't you see that the harlot has no connection to the crowns/no crowns of the beast?

Your understanding of why the crowns/no crowns RT, disregards the timing in the three chapters.

Revelation 17 - 1st century, sixth king ruling.
Revelation 12 - the last 7 years
Revelation 13 - the last 42 months.

You don't accept that the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 is before the war in heaven. Although it comes in the text before the war in heaven, and Satan cast down to earth after the war in heaven, and becomes the third woe shown to John. And has a time, times, half times left.

T

BABerean2 said:

Yes.

I just found it on the shelf.
page 190
last paragraph
"It is at this point that Gaebelein's narrative..."

Canfield is buried in Wilson, North Carolina, which is my home state.

After I read the book I was thinking about contacting him.

But then I found out he had already gone to be with the Lord.

Some believe that Zionist Samuel Untermeyer helped Scofield finance the publication of his reference Bible, since they were both members of the exclusive "Lotus Club". It was not the kind of club where you would expect to see an evangelical preacher.

According to Frank Gaebelein, who was Arno C. Gaebelein's son, it was his father who actually wrote the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.
Gaebelein is listed as one of the editors. He had the knowledge and ability to produce the notes.
Frank said when he was a child Scofield would show up at their house and then Scofield would go to see a movie, while his father banged away on the typewriter.


To this day nobody can figure out where Scofield's doctorate of divinity came from. It appears that he invented it in the same way that he invented his heroism during the war between the states.



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Thank you for informing us of your own research. In my opinion, the false rapture teaching was introduced and promoted by Zionists/Freemasons in order to deceive the church. The Lotus Club to which you referenced was/is composed of Freemasons. On pgs. 14-15 of "A Brief History of the Lotus Club, Cornell University Library, we find this quote:
There were now many distinguished names on
the roll of membership. The parlors of the modest
house on Irving Place on the occasions of enter-
tainments were crowded with men whose presence
would lend distinction to any company. The club
house had become the common meeting ground in
the city for journalists, actors, artists and authors.
Distinguished foreigners and non-resident Ameri-
cans were welcomed to its privileges and courte-
sies. There was a prevalent Freemasonry and
camaraderie which made every one who entered
its hospitable doors at home ; and with all the rol-
licking humor and banter, there were seldom any
breaches of the rules of good fellowship and good
manners.
Full text of "A brief history of the Lotos Club"

After Scofield was introduced to the club, he traveled to Europe where he met with Henry Frowde, publisher of the Oxford University Press who later published the Scofield Bible. Where did Scofield who was not a rich man get his money to travel to Europe? His connections in the Lotus Club? Frowde was a member of the Exclusive Brethren which Scofield founded after his departure from the Plymouth (Open) Brethren.
The Scofield Bible--The Book That Made Zionists of America’s Evangelical Christians - WRMEA

Quasar92 said:

Question: "What does the Bible say about gossip?"

Answer: The Hebrew word translated “gossip” in the Old Testament is defined as “one who reveals secrets, one who goes about as a talebearer or scandal-monger.” A gossiper is a person who has privileged information about people and proceeds to reveal that information to those who have no business knowing it. Gossip is distinguished from sharing information in two ways:

1. Intent. Gossipers often have the goal of building themselves up by making others look bad and exalting themselves as some kind of repositories of knowledge.

2. The type of information shared. Gossipers speak of the faults and failings of others, or reveal potentially embarrassing or shameful details regarding the lives of others without their knowledge or approval. Even if they mean no harm, it is still gossip.

In the book of Romans, Paul reveals the sinful nature and lawlessness of mankind, stating how God poured out His wrath on those who rejected His laws. Because they had turned away from God's instruction and guidance, He gave them over to their sinful natures. The list of sins includes gossips and slanderers (Romans 1:29b-32). We see from this passage how serious the sin of gossip is and that it characterizes those who are under God’s wrath.

Another group who were (and still are today) known for indulging in gossip is widows. Paul cautions widows against entertaining the habit of gossip and of being idle. These women are described as “gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to” (1 Timothy 5:12-13). Because women tend to spend a lot of time in each other's homes and work closely with other women, they hear and observe situations which can become distorted, especially when repeated over and over. Paul states that widows get into the habit of going from home to home, looking for something to occupy their idleness. Idle hands are the devil's workshop, and God cautions against allowing idleness to enter our lives. “A gossip betrays a confidence; so avoid a man [or woman] who talks too much” (Proverbs 20:19).

Women are certainly not the only ones who have been found guilty of gossip. Anyone can engage in gossip simply by repeating something heard in confidence. The book of Proverbs has a long list of verses that cover the dangers of gossip and the potential hurt that results from it. “A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his tongue. A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy man keeps a secret” (Proverbs 11:12-13).

The Bible tells us that “a perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends” (Proverbs 16:28). Many a friendship has been ruined over a misunderstanding that started with gossip. Those who engage in this behavior do nothing but stir up trouble and cause anger, bitterness, and pain among friends. Sadly, some people thrive on this and look for opportunities to destroy others. And when such people are confronted, they deny the allegations and answer with excuses and rationalizations. Rather than admit wrongdoing, they blame someone else or attempt to minimize the seriousness of the sin. “A fool's mouth is his undoing, and his lips are a snare to his soul. The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man's inmost parts” (Proverbs 18:7-8).

Those who guard their tongues keep themselves from calamity (Proverbs 21:23). So we must guard our tongues and refrain from the sinful act of gossip. If we surrender our natural desires to the Lord, He will help us to remain righteous. May we all follow the Bible’s teaching on gossip by keeping our mouths shut unless it is necessary and appropriate to speak.

Recommended Resource: The Quest Study Bible


Quasar92

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Obviously there is a difference between gossip and facts. If you believe what I have written regarding Scofield is gossip and untrue, provide evidence indicating otherwise. Do your own research.