Revelation Chapter 4

[James4_14]

There's the problem you're speaking...and not the scriptures.

If you allow the scriptures to speak you find quickly that much of Revelation has been fulfilled, and that Israel is the church.

Read Romans 9, 10 and 11...they clearly tell you this from the outset:

Overreaching eshatology...to say the least. What does "right division" mean to you my brother?
"Israel of God" are those who were saved during the last dispensation. No more...no less.
I would like to see any fulfillment of Revelation that has taken place.

 

[James4_14]

In Chapter 4 there are two questions that have hit me. #1 - in verse 4 Scripture (NIV) reads: "Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads." Here's the question: Who are the 24 elders? #2- in verse 5 Scripture (NIV) reads; "From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumbles and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God." Here's the question: What are the seven spirits of God?

I am brand new to the in depth study of God's Word, however these things are puzzling to me. I understand that the seven LAMPSTANDS in Revelation refer to the seven Churches, but the seven spirits of God is a new one on me.

Thanks in advance for the help. God Bless...

See what you started? Women have a habit of doing that you know.

 

[ebedmelech]

I shall dispense with the discussion on Romans 9, 10 and 11 and get back to the book of Revelation. I will search for the link concerning Romans and "all Israel" and give it to you anon. This aspect has already been posted some time back.
The new covenant that was made with the House of Israel and Judah requires the prophecy of Joel to be fulfilled and it has not. The day of Pentecost was just a small sample. His spirit will be poured out on all flesh (Joel) and that is the "time of refreshing" as given in Peter's sermon at Pentecost. This is also absent from Revelation. The New Covenant has never been in force. The New Covenant entails the restoration of Israel and other requirements. 1948 did not fulfill a thing.

Dispensing with Romans 9, 10, & 11 is part of the problem. You're ignoring who Israel is. Paul is clearly telling you but you ignore that. He's even giving you the prophecies that say so...like:
Rom 9:25 (which utters Hosea 2:23)
25 As He says also in Hosea,“ I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’ And her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’”
26 “ And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘you are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.”


Romans 9:27-29 (which utters Isaiah 10:22)
27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “ Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved;
28 for the Lord will execute His word on the earth, thoroughly and quickly.”
29 And just as Isaiah foretold,“ Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left to us a posterity, We would have become like Sodom, and would have resembled Gomorrah.”

Lastly in Romans 9:30-33 he tells us how Israel failed (Uttering isaiah 28:16 and 8:14)
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
33 just as it is written,“ Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

How about we deal with this first?

 

[James4_14]

I will re-read your posts to make sure we are on the same page here.

I would like to remind you, if I may, that the New Jerusalem on the earth is not the same as the New Jerusalem descending out of Heaven.

Selah...think of that.

 

[ebedmelech]

I will re-read your posts to make sure we are on the same page here.

I would like to remind you, if I may, that the New Jerusalem on the earth is not the same as the New Jerusalem descending out of Heaven.

Selah...think of that.

I know my brother. But who is the New Jerulselam"? That would be Jesus. Again Paul is telling us that in Galations 4:25-27:
25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
27 For it is written,“ Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear;Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor; For more numerous are the children of the desolate Than of the one who has a husband.

Then again in Hebrews 12:22-24:
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

As to Revelation 3:12...it tells you New Jerusalem is A PERSON...none other than the Lord Jesus:
He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the , new Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from My God,and My new name.

If you let the scripture explain itself...it will.

 

[The Sodoq Zacharias]

In Chapter 4 there are two questions that have hit me. #1 - in verse 4 Scripture (NIV) reads: "Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads." Here's the question: Who are the 24 elders? #2- in verse 5 Scripture (NIV) reads; "From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumbles and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God." Here's the question: What are the seven spirits of God?

I am brand new to the in depth study of God's Word, however these things are puzzling to me. I understand that the seven LAMPSTANDS in Revelation refer to the seven Churches, but the seven spirits of God is a new one on me.

Thanks in advance for the help. God Bless...

And all around the throne were 24 thrones ; and I saw 24 Elders , the High Priests after the Order Of Melchizedek , they make up what is called the Secret Seat Of Council , sitting on white outer garments ; and they had on their heads crown of gold symbolic of those who succeeded being crowned with authority .

The 24 Elders are the keepers of the source of all things to come . Their role is to guide man so that they may stay on the path of the righteous . The 24 Elders came down from the Heavens to give mant Knowldge .

In order to give man the knowldge they came to share , the 24 Elders established mystery schools which were housed in pyramids and certain temples all over the world , such as Egypt , Central America , Easter Island , Tibet , India , Mu , and Atlantis .

Revelation 4 ; 4 , Where It States ; And All Around The Throne Were 24 Thrones ; And I Saw 24 Elders , Sitting Clothed In White Outer Garments ; On Their Heads Crowns Of Gold . < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Key Word Study Bible >

 

[James4_14]

Masonic lodge?