Revelation 6 starting ??

[eclipsenow]

Revelation was written to encourage John's generation! In Chapter 1 he repeatedly says the time is near, it's starting soon, and HE shares in their tribulations / sufferings.

Revelation is written about suffering and tyranny and disasters and even the temptations to trust in worldly wealth and power. It uses graphic biblical imagery to warn us that one day the Lord will return in Judgment.

Chapter 6 is about war - generally speaking - and how there are times when the white horse of a conqueror rides forth, and he causes the red horse of armies and war to follow him. Then there are you have the consequences of war like normal commerce being disrupted and the economic privations of war-time rationing in the black horse. And of course the 'pale' (or chlorine) horse of death sums up all the bloated bodies of battle and disease and famine that follow war. It's gruesome picture language, and it strikes to the heart - which is why John wrote this way.

But then we are reminded that even if you die in a war, the martyrs for God are safe before him - and of course - the Lord will return! Judgement Day happens! It's a glimpse of Judgement Day - a reminder of our gospel hope that even in times of war, we are to remember that the Lord is returning and will correct all the injustices and the horrors of war. Note this Judgement Day focusses on the kings and generals who cause the wars in the first place.

15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

The answer? No one can withstand it - unless their names are written in the book of life!
So hang in there, even if we go to war with a major power. It will be AWFUL - and feel like God has abandoned us. But he will return one day, and judge all the mighty who cause such evil.

 

[Trusting in Him]

No, because the first seal is that the rider on the white horse has to be anointed the King of Israel. Has not happen yet. And will not happen until after Gog/Magog.

Where do you get the statement about the anointing from? Whereabouts in the bible please?

 

[Douggg]

Where do you get the statement about the anointing from? Whereabouts in the bible please?

The rider on the white horse is given a crown.

Since Jesus, the true messiah, is riding a white horse in Revelation 19, the rider in the first seal is a messiah figure.

Messiah originates with the Hebrew word for anointed.

In John 4:25, the woman at the well makes the connection of the messiah with the greek Christos - Christ.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Furthermore, the Christ, the messiah, is connected as the promised great King of Israel, descended from King David that God would send to be the King of Israel - i.e. coming in the name of the Lord.

1. John 1:49 the King of Israel
2. John 12:13 the King of Israel, coming in the name of the Lord.
3. Matthew 27:42 the King of Israel
4. Mark 15:32 Christ the King of Israel

The Jews (Judaism) are looking for their messiah, to be anointed the King of Israel, by who they consider a known prophet - that's what they tell me. Just as Saul and David were anointed by Samuel ; and Solomon by Nathan.

In the case of the rider on the white horse, he will be anointed by the false prophet, claiming to be Elijah, as the King of Israel. That is how the person becomes the Antichrist.

The career of the person to his end is....

the little horn > becomes the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist > becomes

the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast.

_______________________________________________________________

Following Gog/Magog, the little horn person, as the prince who shall come, will be perceived by the Jews as their messiah, and anointed the King of Israel.

Once anointed the King of Israel, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years. The for 7 years is a requirement Moses made back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 that all future leaders do.


Regarding Gog/Magog, given the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which could eventually lead to Gog/Magog, and that the president of the Ukraine is a Jew - Voldoymyr Zelensky - I am looking at the possibility of Zelensky becoming the little horn person.

If Ukraine splits into two nations, and Zelensky becomes the leader of western Ukraine, and he gets NATO admittance, along with support from ten EU leaders, that would be bad in Putin's eyes. The EU leaders are already putting sanctions on Russia in support of Ukraine.

In a counter move, Putin, who has already in part justified his attack on Ukraine because Zelensky sought NATO membership, could create a counter alliance - including the muslim countries to the south.

Which if one of that alliance is attacked by Israel, say Iran, to destroy their nuclear capabilities, then Russia would then be obligated to go to war on Iran's side - i.e. hooks placed in Gog's jaw as it says in Ezekiel 38.

We will have to see how things develop, but I think the end times bible prophecies have started to escalate rapidly.

 

[eclipsenow]

I think it's great how they point out the way the 7's are INSIDE each other like Matryoshka dolls rather than in sequence.

That's John's primary visual aid that shows Revelation is thematic, not linear.

It describes this phase of history after Jesus ascension and before his return.
It does not prescribe a specific sequence of events in the future - it cannot.
Time inside time inside time makes no sense and simply is not a timetable.
But it being a series of themes that John uses to roughly describe what the last 2000 years would be like - well - that makes much more sense of this symbolic literature.

 

[Trusting in Him]

d the King of Israel.

Once anointed the King of Israel, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years. The for 7 years is a requirement Moses made back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 that all future leaders do.


Regarding Gog/Magog, given the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which could eventually lead to Gog/Magog, and that the president of the Ukraine is a Jew - Voldoymyr Zelensky - I am looking at the possibility of Zelensky becoming the little horn person.

If Ukraine splits into two nations, and Zelensky becomes the leader of western Ukraine, and he gets NATO admittance, along with support from ten EU leaders, that would be bad in Putin's eyes. The EU leaders are already putting sanctions on Russia in support of Ukraine.

In a counter move, Putin, who has already in part justified his attack on Ukraine because Zelensky sought NATO membership, could create a counter alliance - including the muslim countries to the south.

Which if one of that alliance is attacked by Israel, say Iran, to destroy their nuclear capabilities, then Russia would then be obligated to go to war on Iran's side - i.e. hooks placed in Gog's jaw as it says in Ezekiel 38.

We will have to see how things develop, but I think the end times bible prophecies have started to escalate rapidly.[/QUOTE]

Being given a crown is one thing being anointed is something different. I prefer to stick what I can definitely know from the bible!

Some thing strange has gone wrong with this post and I don't know why, can some one delete it please!

 

[Douggg]

Being given a crown is one thing being anointed is something different. I prefer to stick what I can definitely know from the bible!

Well, you have plenty of verses in the bible about anointing kings.

29 Bible verses about Anointing Kings

 

[eclipsenow]

Well, you have plenty of verses in the bible about anointing kings.

29 Bible verses about Anointing Kings

But what do they have to do with anything to do with eschatology - other than mostly pointing to Christ and his kingship?

 

[Douggg]

But what do they have to do with anything to do with eschatology - other than mostly pointing to Christ and his kingship?

The concept is that Kings of Israel are anointed by a person acting on behalf of God.

The person who becomes the Antichrist will be anointed by the false prophet as the King of Israel. Christ, the King of Israel, Mark 15:32. "Anti"- Christ - the King of Israel coming in his own name, anointed King by the false prophet.

Song about Zelensky... can you see where this could possibly be going?

 

[eclipsenow]

The concept is that Kings of Israel are anointed by a person acting on behalf of God.

The person who becomes the Antichrist will be anointed by the false prophet as the King of Israel. Christ, the King of Israel, Mark 15:32. "Anti"- Christ - the King of Israel coming in his own name, anointed King by the false prophet.

But there are many AntiChrists.

 

[Douggg]

But there are many AntiChrists.

There is only one coming Antichrist to be the King of Israel coming in his own name in 1John2:18, the others exhibited the spirit of Antichrist.

 

[eclipsenow]

There is only one coming Antichrist to be the King of Israel coming in his own name in 1John2:18, the others exhibited the spirit of Antichrist.

Israel Shmisrael. The bible doesn't care about 1948. Nations come and go. Israel is not any more special than any other nation - except for being known to be difficult for Christians to live in.

The Kingdom of God, Present
In the New Testament, the promised Messiah comes as “Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham” (Matt. 1:1). Through his incarnation, sinless life, crucifixion, and resurrection, Jesus fulfills the messianic promises, accomplishes the messianic mission, and brings redemption to a lost world.
Jesus is the King whose words and deeds bring the spiritual kingdom of God. He proclaims the coming of the kingdom (Matt. 4:17; Mark 1:15; Luke 4:43), preaches the parables of the kingdom (Matt. 13:1–50), and declares the ethics and nature of the kingdom (Matt. 5–7). His deeds, especially his casting out demons by the Spirit, usher in the kingdom: “If I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you” (Matt. 12:28; cf. Luke 11:20). Christ’s mission always leads “up to Jerusalem” and his death and resurrection, where he brings salvation through his sacrifice.​

In his ascension, Jesus moves from the limited earthly sphere to the transcendent heavenly one. He sits at God’s right hand “in the heavens—far above every ruler and authority, power and dominion” (Eph. 1:20–21) now and forever. When Jesus pours out the Spirit on the church at Pentecost, God’s kingdom expands mightily as thousands come to Christ (Acts 2:41, 47; 4:4). Peter explains: “God exalted this man to his right hand as ruler and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins” (Acts 5:31). God rescues sinners “from the domain of darkness” and transfers them “into the kingdom of the Son he loves” (Col. 1:13–14).
The “kingdom,” as God’s reign over his people, will finally and ultimately “come at the end of the age in a mighty irruption into history inaugurating the perfect order of the age to come.” And yet this kingdom “has already come into history in the person and mission of Jesus,” and thus the “presence of the future” is already evident (see George Eldon Ladd, The Presence of the Future, 144–49). So, God’s reign is present and future, already and not yet, his active invasion of history now and his final establishment of the age to come. It is a sovereign rule, a dynamic power, and a divine activity. As the bearer of this kingdom, Jesus requires repentance to enter his kingdom community, since the present way of the world must be rejected and the new age of God’s rule and its corresponding way of life embraced. As such, repentance is not only the way into the kingdom but also the way of the kingdom.​

The New Testament also proclaims that Jesus will return to reign as king, bringing justice, peace, delight, and victory. We live, then, in the tension between the “already” and the “not yet.” The kingdom was established with Israel, inaugurated with Christ in his coming, and achieved in the events of Christ’s death and resurrection. Even though the kingdom effects have begun, their full results await Christ’s return.
The Kingdom of God - The Gospel Coalition​

 

[ewq1938]

There is only one coming Antichrist to be the King of Israel coming in his own name in 1John2:18, the others exhibited the spirit of Antichrist.

The bible never says anything about the antichrist being the king of Israel. It does make him sound like the King or ruler of the whole world though but not being elected or granted such a title but more of him simply claiming it himself.

 

[Douggg]

Israel Shmisrael. The bible doesn't care about 1948.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

 

[Douggg]

The bible never says anything about the antichrist being the king of Israel. It does make him sound like the King or ruler of the whole world though but not being elected or granted such a title but more of him simply claiming it himself.

Is Jesus the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord - according to the bible ?

Can you see where this could possibly be going following Gog/Magog? Zelensky is a Jew.

 

[eclipsenow]

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

Yep, generally this picture of a child being born is of the saviour to come. That's standard Covenant / Amil theology. You're making my argument for me quoting these verses. Nothing about an anti-christ here. As the theologians of the ESV Reformation Study bible say:-

Isa 66:7
66:7 Before . . . birth. The birth of the new community will be sudden, and no human effort will contribute to it. Christ laid the foundation of the church in His lifetime, especially in the week of His death and resurrection (John 2:19).

Isa 66:7 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway​

 

[Douggg]

Yep, generally this picture of a child being born is of the saviour to come. That's standard Covenant / Amil theology. You're making my argument for me quoting these verses. Nothing about an anti-christ here. As the theologians of the ESV Reformation Study bible say:-

Isa 66:7
66:7 Before . . . birth. The birth of the new community will be sudden, and no human effort will contribute to it. Christ laid the foundation of the church in His lifetime, especially in the week of His death and resurrection (John 2:19).

Isa 66:7 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway​

I was responding to your comment...

The bible doesn't care about 1948.

....with what it says in Isaiah 66:8. I even highlighted it in blue.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

 

[eclipsenow]

I was responding to your comment...

The bible doesn't care about 1948.

....with what it says in Isaiah 66:8. I even highlighted it in blue.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Oh, right, so Jesus wasn't the child Israel was expecting?
We're expecting another Messiah now?
Futurism warps so many things these days.
Because the first verse you quoted was about the coming king.

THEN you mentioned Israel's travails.
So tell me, why isn't Isaiah actually talking to his generation about stuff in Israel's more immediate future - not thousands of years later?

 

[ewq1938]

Is Jesus the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord - according to the bible ?

No.

Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

He will be King of the world when he returns.

Can you see where this could possibly be going following Gog/Magog? Zelensky is a Jew.

So?

 

[Douggg]

No.

Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

He will be King of the world when he returns.

John 12:12-15 is not in your bible ?


12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

 

[ewq1938]

John 12:12-15 is not in your bible ?

It doesn't prove he was a king. People can say anything they want but doesn't make it true. I quoted Christ saying he was a king of a kingdom in heaven not a king here. I think he was clear enough. This also avoids the other issue that the bible never says the antichrist becomes a king of Israel.