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Rev. 1:10: "Lord's Day" --Sabbath or Sunday?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Yanar, Jun 4, 2002.

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  1. Yanar

    Yanar New Member

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    Rev. 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

    Here in John's testimony we have the one and only reference in all of scripture to the "Lord's day." Is it prime evidence that Sunday was the "Lord's day"? Is there any indication anywhere in scripture that this name is to be applied to any particular day of the week? Certainly not in Revelation. That exact phrase is not found anywhere else in scripture, but we can find the following:

    Matt. 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

    Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

    Luke 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

    Here it is quite clear that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath day, referring to the seventh day sabbath, the one instituted at creation and written on tables of stone by the finger of God.

    However, the phrase the "Lord's day" has another probable meaning in Revelation. In the Old and New Testament there are 25 specific occurences of the phrase "day of the Lord". I will quote only the last:

    2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    The "day of the Lord" is plainly a reference to the second advent of Christ, a day yet future. Is it not probable that when John says "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day" that he was taken in the spirit (mentally) to witness the events surrounding the second coming? This is set out for us as the very purpose of the book of Revelation:

    Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    While Sunday has become known through Tradition as the Lord's day, scripture does not designate it as such. There is no scriptural evidence to be found that supports the claim that the apostles of Jesus Christ knew anything about sanctifying Sunday and observing it as a holy day of worship.

    Now, does any of the New Testament give further evidence that Sunday worship was unknown to the apostles?

    Paul preaches in Antioch:

    In Acts 13, Paul arrives in Antioch (v. 14) and on the Sabbath day he goes to the synagogue to preach (vs. 16-41). Now note what happens after Paul concludes his sermon about Jesus, the Christ:

    Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synogogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
    Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

    Now at this point, I must ask, if Paul was keeping Sunday, and preaching during services on Sunday, how is it that he does not invite the Gentiles to attend services the very next day, on Sunday, to hear him preach again?

    Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

    Why did the Gentiles have to wait until the NEXT SABBATH to hear Paul preach? This is a quesiton for which the promoters of Sunday worship cannot give a useful answer.

    Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
    Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
    Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

    The Jews in Antioch did not receive the Gospel message on the first sabbath that Paul preached to them. On the following sabbath Paul did not enter the synagogue, the crowd of eager Gentiles being so large that only the outdoors could accommodate the multitude. The envious Jews were angered at Paul's preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles. And what was the response of the Gentiles to the Gospel?

    Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
    Acts 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

    Here Paul has preached to a multitude of Gentiles, not on a Sunday which was his first opportunity, but on the following Sabbath, a Saturday. There can only be one reason for this . . .

    Paul was not keeping Sunday.

    Sunday had not been instituted as a day of worship, and none of the apostles were observing it as a holy day.

    Was the seventh day Sabbath still to be observed?

    At this point it might be asked, is there any evidence from the NT that indicates the seventh day Sabbath was to be observed even AFTER the crucifixion?

    Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
    Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    Matt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    Matt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give such in those days!
    Matt 24:20 but pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    There are two possible applications of the above text. The first is the destruciton of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. by the armies of Rome. Note the parallel text in Luke to verse 15:

    Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    This verse makes clear that Jesus is warning of the impending destruction of Jerusalem, and that the people should pray that they will not need to flee on the Sabbath. Why would that matter? Because Jesus as God intended the sabbath day to be one of rest and spiritual growth, not a day of panic; fleeing from an invading army of persecutors. Jesus is affirming here, that 40 years after His death on the cross, the Sabbath would still be observed by the people of God. If Jesus intended for Sunday to be observed as a replacement for the Sabbath, then why doesn't He tell the people to pary that their flight not be on the first day of the week?

    Many Christians today, while they might acknowledge an initial application of Matthew 24:15-20 to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, will also maintain that this passage applies most fully to an event yet future. They believe that the antichrist will descrate the temple at some future date, and that this will signal the nearness of the second coming. If one subscribes to this future timing, then Jesus is speaking of His people observing the Saturday seventh day Sabbath all the way into a time that is even now still in the future!

    Not only was the Sabbath never rescinded, but scripture even makes clear that in the future, all of mankind (those who are saved) will observe the Sabbath when worshipping the Lord:

    Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    Conclusion

    Note the following comments from a Catholic viewpoint by the Reverend John A. O'Brien:

    . . . the Bible does not contain all the teachings of the Christian religion, nor does it formulate all the duties of its members. Take, for example, the matter of Sunday observance, the attendance at divine services and the abstention from unnecessary servile work on that day, a matter upon which our Protestant neighbors have for many years laid great emphasis. Let me address myself in a friendly spirit to my dear Protestant reader: You believe that the Bible alone is a safe guide in religious matters. You also believe that one of the fundamental duties enjoined upon you by your Christian faith is that of Sunday observance. But where does the Bible speak of such an obligation? I have read the Bible from the first verse of Genesis to the last verse of Revelation, and have found no reference to the duty of sanctifying the Sunday. The day mentioned in the Bible is not the Sunday, the first day of the week, but the Saturday, the last day of the week. It was the Apostolic Church (Catholic Church) which, acting by virture of that authority conferred upon her by Christ, changed the observance to the Sunday in honor of the day on which Christ rose from the dead, and to signify that now we are no longer under the Old Law of the Jews, but under the New Law of Christ. In observing the Sunday as you do, it is not apparent that you are really acknowledging the insufficiency of the bible alone as a rule of faith and religious conduct, and proclaiming the need of a divinely established teaching authority which in theory you deny?

    Source: The Faith of Millions, by the Reverend John A. O'Brien, Ph.D., 4th Ed., copyright 1938, pub. by Our Sunday Visitor, Huntingon, Ind., p. 147.

    As the Bible does not testify of Sunday sacredness, it was clearly unknown to the apostles and was neither observed or commanded by them. Sunday sacredness is really nothing more than a Catholic Tradition. If you are going to follow the precepts of the word of God in the Bible and observe the day it enjoins, then there is really only one choice: the keeping of the seventh day (Saturday) Sabbath as found in the commandments of God.

    "And the dragon was wroth with the woman (God's people/church), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of JesusChrist." Revelation 12:17

    Your Friend in Christ,

    Ya'nar
    Heaven is a ceaseless approaching to God through Jesus Christ.
     
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  2. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +603
    Christian
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    Acts 20:7
    And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    1st Cor. 16:2
    Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
     
  3. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    "The Lord's day" may refer to a particular day of the week, or John may mean "unto the day of the Lord," which would refer to the days of the end times.



    Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.


    Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days].
     
  4. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Very observant, Mandy. The Lord's Day is just one of the many a variants of "the Day of the Lord" which is mentioned all throughout scripture.

    The bible writers never called Sunday "the Lord's Day." That notion arose much later in the Church and is not biblical.
     
  5. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +3
    Christian
    Rev.1:9-10

    Patmos was a rugged volcanic island off the coast of Asia Minor. It was about 10 miles long and six miles wide. He was exiled there from about A.D. 86 to 96. The Lord's day is not the day of the "Day of The Lord" - the reference is to a Sunday.
     
  6. Yanar

    Yanar New Member

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    So the popular belief goes. But --how can you be sure it is Sunday and not God's seventh day Sabbath? After all, there is no record the apostles recognized and observed any other day except the seventh day Sabbath. Please see my post in General Theology forum, "Did the Apostles Worship on Sunday in Place of God's holy seventh day Sabbath?"

    Since the RCC freely admits to having changed the 4th commandment of God's holy Moral Law, or Ten Commandments, I feel is it only fair to review in detail precisely how and when and which apostle (if any can be found) it was who was responsible for observing a false Sabbath in place of the true, and thus unofficially at first changing God's Moral Law, as given to Moses on Sinai. To review this startling admission by the world-wide Catholic Church it is important to go back and remind those guilty defending this haughty change, that had it been possible for God to abrogate or set aside His Law even in one point . . . it would not have been necessary to put Jesus to death to redeem mankind!

    Thus, the willful setting aside of one of God's ten holy precepts is equal to charging God--our loving and merciful heavenly Father--with a horribly stupid blunder: the needless and wasteful agony and bloody death of His own dear, precious Son . . . FOR NOTHING!

    Are we to understand and come to believe and accept, dear Catholic brethren, that the suffering of our Lord Jesus . . . was nothing more than a useless demonstration which had no purpose? That the whole life and terrible death of no less than God Himself . . . was an exercise . . . in futility??

    That would then make of God a supreme fool before the universe, would it not?

    Because, you see, by willfully changing the Law of God you, the Catholic Church, are taking to yourself the authority and right to stand in the very place of God; to do that which even GOD HIMSELF has not dared do!

    To alter the Eternal and Righteous Law which was meant and will forever stand as a precept of His very character!

    And for those who still believe the Sabbath commandment (or 4th commandment) is in fact a part of the ceremonial law--and not at all a part of the Moral Law, please reread Exodus 20:8-11, which speaks directly to this matter. As you see, the Sabbath commandment is sandwiched in the center of the Moral Law! In a very real sense, it is the very "heart" of the Moral Law. And why is this? Because the 4th commandment DEMANDS that the creature (us) put aside our lives one day a week--and worship the true Creator of heaven and earth! Not worshipping a false god on a false, man-made day; but the real and genuine God--the God who spoke the Heavens and the Earth into being! The all-powerful God . . . and the One who died so that we might live eternally. Jesus, the Lamb of God, "which taketh away the sin of the world."

    The Devil, Lucifier in heaven, has always aspired to take the place of Jesus, beside the Father on His eternal throne. We learn this from the prophet Isaiah. "I will be like the Most High," he proudly boasts. But Satan cannot snatch Godhood from God, so long as mankind continues obediently to worship the REAL God on His Holy Sabbath day!

    Thus, Satan reasoned that for himself to be worshipped as God--he must have His own special day . . . Yes!! To obtain the worship of mankind, the recognition of himself as god to this fallen world . . . he would create his own sacred day . . . and as an added insult to the Lord of all heaven, Lucificr, the proud, covering cherub, would make it a pagan worship day! Yes! He would bring all the pagan's together on the Venerable Day of the Sun--Sun's Day--and mankind would turn away from their God, and bow before him . . . Lucifier!! The fiend and liar! And mankind would be brought to sanctify this blasphemous, unholy day as a sacred day . . . a false day, to worship a false god.

    Thus he, Lucifier, would lead billions to worship and serve HIM, their false god on his false day . . . and coax these gullible, willing victims to their unavoidable ruin!

    Wake up! WAKE UP, CHRISTIAN WORLD!

    Before it's too late . . .

    When our Lord says, "Come now, let us reason together--" He is inviting you to use the one gift He gave that no man can take from you: your brain. Your reasoning powers! Therefore, READ YOUR BIBLE, and understand what God is saying to you.

    Because one day He will call you to account for the words He lead prophets and apostles to write. And on that day, standing naked before Him, when all truth is laid bare and nothing can be hid--He will not accept excuses for your laziness when claiming,"I was taught to believe lies!"

    It is the HOLY SPIRIT'S duty to teach us, and to bring us into all God's truth--as Jesus said, before He ascended into heaven. Prayer, and total dependance upon the HS and dedicated Bible Study, abiding and communing daily with Him, are the tools Jesus left us to grow in grace and in truth, from the milk to the meat of the word . . . from childish unrighteousness, to full maturity, putting on the robe of Christ's righteousness, so that we may stand in the "Day of the Lord," which is our Lord's Second Coming, in the clouds of heaven!

    We haven't much time! Jesus is coming SOON! We must redouble our efforts and dedicate ourselves FULLY to knowing and loving HIM . . . and to loving one another, as He has loved us, allowing Him to prepare our characters . . . to PERFECT our characters, for our ultimate heavenly home, with Him . . .

    Come, Lord Jesus! COME!

    Your Friend in Christ,

    Ya'nar
    Heaven is a ceaseless approaching to God through Jesus Christ
     
  7. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
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    Yanar,

    I believe that you are off base here in your assessment. Your post would lead us to believe that because we worship God on a certain day we are worshipping a false God, in turn, this would lead us also to believe that Sunday is an evil day. How can any one particular day be evil? They aren't living breathing entities.

    As you stated in your own post, nobody really knows which day is the biblical seventh day. My argument: The Spanish word for Sunday is Sabado which roughly translated means Sabbath. Which language named sunday first? Well since both English and Spanish are derivatives of Latin, you tell me.

    However, you are walking a thin line by accusing all who worship on Sunday of worshiping a false God. Christians should worship God everyday, not just on the day that you believe is the "true Sabbath". Do not post such inflammatory statements here. We are all brethren of the same body of Christ.

    Furthermore, if you do indeed feel the need to post such condemning arguments, be prepared to offer some solid evidence for your claims.

    Let us continue the conversation, from here.

    in Christ,

    Zach
     
  8. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +603
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    Very well put, coastie. Anyone can have church anywhere, and anytime. Sunday is fine, Saturday is fine. So is Wednesday and Thursday. Even Monday and Tuesday.
     
  9. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
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    US-Libertarian
    Well put! When I was in elementary school I ahd a friend who was an SDA. I asked my mom why SDA's went to church on Saturdays and this is what she told me (take it for what it's worth, this is just a cute story about my mom).

    "Well, God has to hear all of the different churches sing on Sunday, so the SDA's have their services on Saturday to help ease the work load." Cute eh?

    Zach
     
  10. Blackwing

    Blackwing Music Man With Black Wings(duh...)<img src="http:/

    +8
    Non-Denom
    Calling your brethren as satan worshippers because they worship on a sunday is not exactly christianlike. Please be civil here. This thread is watched and you have been warned Yanar, Lets keep it civil here.

    Thank you
     
  11. Brian45

    Brian45 Senior Member

    +147
    Christian
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    We are not jews , we are Gentiles . We are not the followers of Moses and the prophets .
     
  12. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +603
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    Moms are great.:) Thank God for moms.:)
     
  13. Yanar

    Yanar New Member

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    You said:

    I was surprised to read your response, Blackwing, because never in my post did I call Sunday-worshipping Christian's Satan worshippers. What I said was that in my opinion and that of many millions of Bible-reading Christian's like me all over the world the inspiration for changing God's holy law came originally from the devil, who desires that all men everywhere disobey God and His word. That is a very different thing, than carelessly calling people who worship on Sunday, Satan worshippers. I firmly believe there are good, honest, God-fearing and God-loving Christian's and Catholics who attend church each Sunday. And I would never call them anything except good Christian/Catholic people. But I also believe, respectfully, that they are people who don't fully comprehend the importance of breaking God's Moral Law, by attending church on Sunday. And I feel it is my obligation as a concerned Christian to point that out to them as lovingly as I can. God loves and forgives us, yes. But in the area of sin, there can be no compromising. God's holiness demands that we forsake the sin in our lives while probation lasts through the blood of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit. If this gets me expelled from this website, then I guess so be it.

    Jesus Christ himself learned how dangerous it is to proclaim God's truth to mankind, and was eventually executed for it. I will not break your rules, Blackwing. All I ask is that you thoroughly read my posts with an eye toward Christian understanding and not condemnation. Because that truely ISN'T the Spirit of Christ.

    Ya'nar
    Heaven is a ceaseless approaching to God through Jesus Christ.
     
  14. pete

    pete New Member

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    The Sabbath commandment (exod.20:8-11)contains the three factors about God,the Author,that were included in seals placed by ancient kings upon their documents.(see 1Kings 21:8;Esther 3:10-12;8:8,10;Dan.4:1-3;Ezra1:1-4)(1)His name is "Lord".(2)His authority is that He is the Creator("the Lord made").(3)The extent of his Dominion is the universe.("heaven and earth").Those who will be sealed at the end of time are those who have recieved the gift of the character of Christ by yhe Holy Spirit.They are faithful Sabbath keepers who like Jesus did recognize that day as the sign or seal of their covennant relationship with him ,their Creator and Redeemer.
     
  15. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
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    "The Lord's Day" is the day of worship. "In the spirit" is the attitude or orientation for worship. Worship is the eschatological act in which the (New) Covenant is perpetually renewed through the proclamation of the Word and the celebration of the Eucharist ("the marriage supper of the Lamb," Rev. 19:9). In the midst of the worshiping community, Christ is present, and he is perpetually enthroned upon the praises of his people as King of kings and Lord of lords. Worship is the participation of the Church in the suffering, death and resurrection of Christ, pointing toward the "end," that is, the consummation of the ages when all things shall be restored, in Christ, to their original splendor.

    Revelation is fulfilled whenever the people of God gather for worship "in the Spirit," and the day set aside for worship is "the Lord's Day."
     
  16. pete

    pete New Member

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    Hi, I have done research on this topic.And have found some amazing discoveries.From the 4th to the 12th century was the time frame in which this change took place.Constantine and his famous Sunday law of March7,321 reads as follows:"On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest,and let workshops be closed.In the country, however,persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits;because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting;lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost".It is obvious that this first Sunday law was not Christian in orientation.We may note, for instance,the pagan designation 'Venerable Day of the Sun'.Also, it is evident that Constantine did not base his Sunday regulations on the Decalogue,for he exemted agriculture work.A type of work strictly prohibited in the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20;8-11.Sabbath observance was was progressively replaced by Sunday observance in the centuries that followed.But time and tradition do not abolish the law of God.Jesus said,"Whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments,and teaches others to do the sme, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven;but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven"Matt.5:19.Also see 1John 2:4-6.Dan.7:25 profesied of this change.My friend in Christ I encourage you to do your own research.It's pretty amazing stuff.Tradition won't save you.But God's word will.God Bless You All!!!!
     
  17. pete

    pete New Member

    10
    +0
    Sunday in spanish is Domingo.Sabado means Saturday Just ask any Hispanic.But sorry to burst your bubble.
     
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