Reunification is coming! The Time Is Now!

nyj · Dec 11, 2003

Matrona said:
If Vatican II was more explicit, then why was its explicitness largely ignored?

There are books upon books written about this. I couldn't do it justice in a single post. Simply, it has to do with people and agendas (especially in the United States... you don't see the abuses you claim in other parts of the world) taking advantage of a poorly catechized group of individuals.

Matrona said:
The answer, I think, is to strike it down the middle. In other words, it wouldn't be right to try to convince all other Christians that they're going to burn forever unless they become Catholic--but nor is it right to be "ecumenical" to the point where the Pope kisses a book of lies and heresy.

Are you implying with this, that the Catholic Church is intentionally speaking out of both sides of her mouth? If so, I'll refrain from replying henceforth... it won't be pretty as I take pretty serious offense to when people call my faith, and my spiritual father, a liar.

Matrona said:
I knew that it hadn't been consecrated, but I still felt really uncomfortable about it--a better way to phrase that sentence would have been to say, "I did as the priest asked me to, but I felt REALLY uncomfortable about handling what was intended to be consecrated as the body of Christ while I had yet to be baptized a Christian."

You could have simply said "No". Right?

Matrona said:
I know some Christians don't feel the way I do about the Eucharist, but this bread is going to become the Body of my Lord, and the wine is going to become His Blood--I'm not going to treat it like nachos and beer, for crying out loud.

Catholics don't go around treating the Eucharist like it was nachos and beer either.

Photini · Dec 11, 2003

Roald said:
Photini,

I happened to check your profile and saw that we have the same favorite verse--Luke 7:47. What about it do you like?

It reminds me that my sinful past is not a hopeless liability.

Photini · Dec 11, 2003

NYJ,
In your post 32 on this thread you were supposed to be quoting me....those are NOT my words. Can you kindly please go back and edit it?

nyj · Dec 11, 2003

Photini said:
NYJ,
In your post 32 on this thread you were supposed to be quoting me....those are NOT my words. Can you kindly please go back and edit it?

Fixed. My apologies.

Photini · Dec 11, 2003

nyj said:
Fixed. My apologies.

is okay...

Matrona · Dec 11, 2003

nyj said:
There are books upon books written about this. I couldn't do it justice in a single post. Simply, it has to do with people and agendas (especially in the United States... you don't see the abuses you claim in other parts of the world) taking advantage of a poorly catechized group of individuals.

Isn't the Catechism standardized for the Catholic Church? If that's the case, how can there be a poorly catechized Catholic? They were either catechized or they weren't, right?

Are you implying with this, that the Catholic Church is intentionally speaking out of both sides of her mouth? If so, I'll refrain from replying henceforth... it won't be pretty as I take pretty serious offense to when people call my faith, and my spiritual father, a liar.

No, I was responding to the things you mentioned, and I said that my opinion was that neither way is the proper way to handle being one church out of many religions.

You could have simply said "No". Right?

Actually, not really. I was there with a Catholic boy. The priest came up to us, and after I introduced myself and explained I wasn't Catholic (because the boy didn't seem to think it was terribly important for an inquirer to meet the priest), he asked the two of us to bring up the gifts when the time came. The boy said "sure, we'll do it!" before I could put a word in edgewise. So I decided to just suck it up and do it, since doing it probably wasn't going to send me straight to heck and I did want to be baptized, I just wasn't sure by who yet, and that was at least better than a straight-up heathen bringing up the gifts, right?

Catholics don't go around treating the Eucharist like it was nachos and beer either.

I would certainly hope not. I was merely providing a hypothetical to act as a foil for the way I treat the things that become the sacraments.

nyj · Dec 11, 2003

Matrona said:
Isn't the Catechism standardized for the Catholic Church? If that's the case, how can there be a poorly catechized Catholic? They were either catechized or they weren't, right?

People have to read it Matrona. Also, the current Catechism of the Catholic Church, a much more indepth document than the Baltimore Catechism, is a "new addition" to Catholic teaching, instituted by Pope John Paul II. The reign of Pope John Paul II came after Vatican II was long over. Therefore, an entire generation went without the benefit of this Catechism. Also, you make it seem like, just because this book exists, everyone is going to know it frontwards and backwards. I doubt it even works that way in the Orthodox Church.

Reformed Baptist · Dec 11, 2003

Oblio said:
We would all be better if we were one united Church as it was for at least 800 years before the cracks started to form.

What teachings of the EO do you disagree with ? What caused you to leave the Church ? Did you marry into or out of the Church ? (It's a big chasm between Baptist and Apostolic Christianity)

The Church is united...it always was and always will be.

Philip · Dec 11, 2003

nyj said:
Also, you make it seem like, just because this book exists, everyone is going to know it frontwards and backwards. I doubt it even works that way in the Orthodox Church.

You are correct. The same could be said about mathematics. There are plenty of good math books, and we all had to take math classes. Yet, there are many people who have lost their math skills.

nyj · Dec 11, 2003

Philip said:
You are correct. The same could be said about mathematics. There are plenty of good math books, and we all had to take math classes. Yet, there are many people who have lost their math skills.

I know this first-hand. I hate math (no more so than right now, after having had to work out chi square equations for my thesis work).

BBAS 64 · Dec 11, 2003

nyj said:
I know this first-hand. I hate math (no more so than right now, after having had to work out chi square equations for my thesis work).

YUCK!!

BBAS

Oblio · Dec 11, 2003

The Church is united...it always was and always will be.

Egads !!

My convert history is showing :o

What I meant was that all Christians should be united in one Faith. That can hardly be said today.

MariaRegina · Dec 11, 2003

Reformed Baptist said:
The Church is united...it always was and always will be.

Those who refuse to partake of the Precious Body and Blood of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church are no longer in communion with the Holy Church of Christ.

nyj · Dec 11, 2003

BBAS 64 said:
YUCK!!

Yep, tell me about it. Thank the Lord for computer programs such as SPSS though!

MariaRegina · Dec 11, 2003

nyj said:
Yep, tell me about it. Thank the Lord for computer programs such as SPSS though!

Is SPSS better than Excel or Minitabs? I'll probably have to analyze some data also, but our campus uses Excel.

nyj · Dec 11, 2003

SPSS is designed solely for complex statistics. What Excel couldn't do without either additional downloads of special statistical packages, SPSS did in one minute once my data was loaded. Piece of cake. Of course I had someone show me what to do, but SPSS worked wonders. From what I gather, a lot of universities use SPSS as well... I know ours does. The problem with SPSS is, if your university doesn't have it... it's expensive (over $500).

As for Minitab, I don't know... the last time I used Minitab I was on a 286 over a decade ago! Of course, a lot of textbooks still use Minitab in their examples, so I'm assuming it's still a viable resource.

Philip · Dec 11, 2003

chanter said:
Is SPSS better than Excel or Minitabs? I'll probably have to analyze some data also, but our campus uses Excel.

Speaking as a professional mathematician, SPSS is vastly superior to either Excel or Minitabs for large datasets or complex analsys. Excel is viable for everyday use, such as analyzing trends in business, but can't keep up with SPSS. If you are going to be doing hard-core data analysis or data mining, you absolutely need SPSS and Mathematica. (Both are availible to students for non-comercial use at greatly reduced prices.)

Philip · Dec 11, 2003

Wow, what happened to this thread?

Reformed Baptist · Dec 11, 2003

chanter said:
Those who refuse to partake of the Precious Body and Blood of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church are no longer in communion with the Holy Church of Christ.

So you say.

Roald · Dec 12, 2003

Photini said:
It reminds me that my sinful past is not a hopeless liability.

Thanks! The verse reminds me that I should love God even more in the light of my own sinfulness and His willingness to forgive me.

Reunification is coming! The Time Is Now!

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