(Rethinking) Gender

[praying]

A growing number of Americans are taking their private struggles with their identities into the public realm. How those who believe they were born with the wrong bodies are forcing us to re-examine what it means to be male and female.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18618970/site/newsweek/

She is a beautiful woman.

 

[Caylin]

The only problem I have with this article is the same thing I have with *any* article about transsexualism, which is it is almost impossible to really explain what it is like.

 

[silimauleaf]

I think that it is highly possible a human can be born the wrong gender, and it really says nothing about them, its a problem like greasy hair or a bad back. With medical science, society seems to have changed for the better

 

[GryffinSong]

When I was working in the computer industry, I met three women who'd been born men. Of those three, two of them were so depressed as men that they felt suicidal. They felt that changing genders literally saved their lives.

 

[Caylin]

When I was working in the computer industry, I met three women who'd been born men. Of those three, two of them were so depressed as men that they felt suicidal. They felt that changing genders literally saved their lives.

The other one prolly just didn't tell you about it.

 

[Kaelestis721]

I don't think I can ever find myself supporting such a drastic physical change. I'm not saying that there are not those who are born w/ mentalities that most accurately depict that of the opposite sex. I am saying that nothing stops them from dressing or acting as they see fit...why does such an expensive and drastic physical change have to occur for them to feel comfortable w/ themselves?

This is an issue I cannot understand...I don't understand what the addition of breasts or lack of male genitals could do for a person that they can't do for themselves w/ or w/o them.

 

[trunks2k]

This is an issue I cannot understand...I don't understand what the addition of breasts or lack of male genitals could do for a person that they can't do for themselves w/ or w/o them.

My guess would be those items serve as constant reminder that you are physically not the correct sex, and just (not) having them causes a great amount of discomfort.

On a fundamental level, once you remove the idea that a sex change is a rather permanent change, I don't see how hating what sex you are and changing it is really all that much different from hating your hair and getting a haircut.

Might be a bit of a stretch of an analogy, but suppose you had a mentally abusive spouse. You could go about your day pretending that your spouse is a wonderful person and is great to you, but at the end of the day, you'd still have to come home to that mental abuse. The only way to fix the problem is to get rid of the spouse. I'm willing to bet, that people with gender dysphoria have the same sort of issue with their body parts.

 

[GryffinSong]

I don't think I can ever find myself supporting such a drastic physical change. ...

Do you support people who get rynoplasty to change the shape of their nose? How about liposuction? Breast reduction surgery? Breast enhancement? Face lifts? Mole removal? How about cleft pallette?

At what point is a "cosmetic" medical procedure ok? At what point is it ok for any of us to limit what other people do with their bodies?

I don't believe in limiting what other people do to themselves. I don't have to agree with it. I just have to not force my views on everyone else.

 

[Kaelestis721]

Do you support people who get rynoplasty to change the shape of their nose? How about liposuction? Breast reduction surgery? Breast enhancement? Face lifts? Mole removal? How about cleft pallette?

At what point is a "cosmetic" medical procedure ok? At what point is it ok for any of us to limit what other people do with their bodies?

I don't believe in limiting what other people do to themselves. I don't have to agree with it. I just have to not force my views on everyone else.

No...no I don't

I hope that I'm not really forcing my opinion on others...just asking questions that I, myself, am curious about while asserting my own opinion.

 

[WhiteMageGirl]

She is abeautiful woman.

I disagree. She needs FFS, to be pretty. Actually, I do believe all MtF transexuals including myself need FFS to be attractive, if attractive is even a feasible goal.

 

[wanderingone]

I disagree. She needs FFS, to be pretty. Actually, I do believe all MtF transexuals including myself need FFS to be attractive, if attractive is even a feasible goal.

That's odd to me, while there are certainly faces I've seen that seem particularly "feminine" or "masculine" to me I don't think every mtf transexual needs facial surgery to be attractive. All mtf transexuals don't have the same features, how could they all need to surgery to be attractive?

 

[Caylin]

I disagree. She needs FFS, to be pretty. Actually, I do believe all MtF transexuals including myself need FFS to be attractive, if attractive is even a feasible goal.

As an MtF I disagree. I don't think all of us do.

 

[praying]

As an MtF I disagree. I don't think all of us do.

I agree.

 

[k]

Gender is purely a social construction so we should support peoples' decisions to be whatever gender they choose to be and love them, even if we don't agree with or understand that choice.

 

[MachZer0]

She is a beautiful woman.

Looks like a man trying to pass himself off as a woman to me

 

[praying]

Gender is purely a social construction so we should support peoples' decisions to be whatever gender they choose to be and love them, even if we don't agree with or understand that choice.

I don't know about a social construct, I think how gender is manifested is a social construct.

 

[k]

Even if gender has original purpose we morph it into derivative purpose from the time we are born thus making it nearly impossible to know if it has original purpose or not.

 

[GryffinSong]

So, I've sometimes wondered. If society were such that everyone was accepted, and celebrated, as exactly who they are, regardless of sex, appearance, and so on, would transexuals still want surgery? What if our society wasn't so polarized into male/female? What if one could be some of each, or both and be fully accepted? Dress how you like, do what you like? Live with and how you like?

I'm only asking because I'm probably somewhere in between. I'm a woman. But I've never really strongly identified as a female woman. In the sense that I don't tend to wear makeup, or dresses, and I never wanted pregnancy or children. I don't care for rules that limit what women can do. I suspect if I'd been born a man I wouldn't particularly care that my plumbing was different, but I can't be sure.

So, I'm trying to understand if it's the societal structure that makes one so desperate to change the physical parts? Or if there's a stronger identification with a particular sex/gender than I, personally, feel in my body?

Thanks.

 

[k]

Sounds like you are resisting norms that are forced upon us based on anatomy. If we were all accepted without prejudice i doubt any change would be noticed.

 

[trunks2k]

S

I'm only asking because I'm probably somewhere in between. I'm a woman. But I've never really strongly identified as a female woman. In the sense that I don't tend to wear makeup, or dresses, and I never wanted pregnancy or children. I don't care for rules that limit what women can do. I suspect if I'd been born a man I wouldn't particularly care that my plumbing was different, but I can't be sure.

I think there's a difference between gender dysphoria and unhappiness with fufilling cultural gender roles. I think gender dysphoria is a result of the brain being wired, so to speak, to be one sex while your body is the other sex. While a person that has gender dysphoria will probably not want to abide by cultural gender roles, I don't think that not wanting to abide by cultural gender roles really means you are unhappy with your sex.