Responding to WHY were they not healed

[wstu]

First off I believe God has healed ALL our sicknesses but as you know WOF folks die of sicknesses all the time while they say they are believing on that truth. I am a firm believer we are to look at what the Word says and not at what we see, feel, etc. But I am stumped how to respond when someone comes to me and says, "why did my friend/spouse/etc die when they were a strong faith person. A person who stood on the fact that God HAD healed them 2000 years ago on the cross". I believe there are a number of reasons that they were not healed, but none of them are because God did not want them healed. Most if not all point to the a failure on the sick persons part. Lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6), doubt (James 1:6), weak faith (Matt 17:20), etc. WOF folks have gotten beat up for saying it was because of their lack of faith, and rightfully so. There are times to speak the truth and there are times we need to keep our mouth shut. So, how do we respond in a loving way when we are asked point blank? If you don't know the details of how the person was fighting, it is easy, you can just say you don't know, because you don't. But, when you do know some details such as the person was struggling with doubt what do you say then?

I tell folks that we are all at different levels of faith and we are not to look down at someone who may not be at your level. Unbounding faith is like running being able to run marathon. You cannot run a marathon right out of the gate. You need to first start with shorter distances and work your way up to a marathon. Many folks try to apply their faith on a major sickness when they have not even gotten victory for a cold. Probably not the best illustration since some can when it comes to faith. Thanks all for your input

 

[Nig]

When Martin Luther proclaimed the message of grace back in the sixteenth century, it was common then for people to pray for months before they knew or felt like they were saved. The foundations of salvation by grace through faith though good were not yet well established. We would say to someone today that you can pray and know you are saved straight away. We have a firm foundation upon which to lay our faith.

I see charismatics have seen the promises of God and believed that those promises are for them. They have then tried to handle those promises, sometimes with hilarity and so been ridiculed for that. But God has said yes these promises are yes and amen in Christ and so released a portion of them in order to say come closer my child. Now in the progress of time those charismatics who were once ridiculed for poor understanding of scripture are now laying a foundation that is solid, that man can stand upon with confidence, knowing the truth and the truth setting him free.

We know that right now Jesus is sitting at the right had of the Father, till His enemies are made His footstool, and the last enemy to be defeated is death.

Somewhere, in the progress of that statement we know that in order for death to be defeated then sickness has to be brought to be Jesus's footstool.

We live in those days that the voices of faith are growing louder and louder and the voices of doubt are getting quieter and quieter. It has been a long time since I have heard a voice proclaim that God does not heal today. (Maybe I am traveling in the ahem wrong circles ) you probably know yourself what it is like after hearing this wonderful message of Grace, to sit and listen to a message of works, what that does to your renewed mind. The purveyor of doubt is being forced to shut up and allow the children of God to claim their righteous inheritance today

 

[clark thompson]

God can heal who He choses. I advice those who have trouble with this to read Job.

 

[hhodgson]

When Martin Luther proclaimed the message of grace back in the sixteenth century, it was common then for people to pray for months before they knew or felt like they were saved. The foundations of salvation by grace through faith though good were not yet well established. We would say to someone today that you can pray and know you are saved straight away. We have a firm foundation upon which to lay our faith.

I see charismatics have seen the promises of God and believed that those promises are for them. They have then tried to handle those promises, sometimes with hilarity and so been ridiculed for that. But God has said yes these promises are yes and amen in Christ and so released a portion of them in order to say come closer my child. Now in the progress of time those charismatics who were once ridiculed for poor understanding of scripture are now laying a foundation that is solid, that man can stand upon with confidence, knowing the truth and the truth setting him free.

We know that right now Jesus is sitting at the right had of the Father, till His enemies are made His footstool, and the last enemy to be defeated is death.

Somewhere, in the progress of that statement we know that in order for death to be defeated then sickness has to be brought to be Jesus's footstool.

That progress started in the Garden with His drops of blood from His forehead, and then, on to the whipping post, ("by His stripes we are/were healed), by His blood. At the cross was the sin payment in full, by His shed blood. ("It is finished.") Then...His death, burial, and Resurrection, and then completed by the blood sacrificial offering to the Father at His Ascension. Then He sat down with the Father.

Does this sound about right..?

We live in those days that the voices of faith are growing louder and louder and the voices of doubt are getting quieter and quieter. It has been a long time since I have heard a voice proclaim that God does not heal today. (Maybe I am traveling in the ahem wrong circles ) you probably know yourself what it is like after hearing this wonderful message of Grace, to sit and listen to a message of works, what that does to your renewed mind. The purveyor of doubt is being forced to shut up and allow the children of God to claim their righteous inheritance today

Sounds pretty good, Nig...


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[hhodgson]

God can heal who He choses. I advice those who have trouble with this to read Job.

Sorry That's not WoF teaching... or any teaching that I'm aware of...What happened to "whosoever will?" (Romans 10:13). Jesus healed ALL who came unto Him. (Matt 8:1-4)

God tells US to choose...(Deut. 30:19) "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before YOU life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore CHOOSE life." He says..."YOU choose." Hmm..! I thought sickness and disease were curses.


Greater Works...
______________
Harry

 

[hhodgson]

I brought this up from another post, wstu...hope it can be helpful...


I found some good faith filled quotes from Andrew Wommack, (mixed with mine, of-course), that I tied together. I pray it speaks to your heart and meets your needs.

Faith is released by "your words." It's one of the laws that governs faith. (Prov 18:21) Death and life, (not just life only) are in the power of your tongue. It's only when the heart and mouth work together in faith that a confession is brought to pass.

But just speaking isn't enough, you must speak directly to your mountain. (Mk 11:24) and I believe I receive "when" I pray. Sometimes we speak to God "about" what we are facing, (Our mountains). Don't do that...do this...Speak to what you are facing right now, ABOUT what God has already done through His Son, Jesus Christ...

(1 Pet 2:24) The Word says, "You are healed," your body says, "You are not." Who wins..? Your confession..! This quote may make you smile a little... "Faith doesn't move God, He's not the one whose stuck."

(Mk 9:24) "Lord, I believe, help my unbelief." You don't need more faith. We need to develop our faith in what God has given us, "the" measure of faith. (Rom 12:3) And how do we deal with unbelief..? Starve it! And apply the hammer of God's Word to it...

God's Word is always best for our healing...But, at times, fear and worry can creep in. (None of us have arrived yet) ...God also uses Doctors and medicine. So, either way. (John 14:1) "Don't let your heart be troubled, believe in God."

And lastly...Do not worry. (Mk 5:36) "Fear not, only believe,"


(Whenever I teach, I'm always the first one in line to to receive. (Rom 4:17) "I look at things that be not, as though they were.")


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[now faith]

False teaching,fear sin UN confessed are all examples of destroyers of faith.

We simply teach what the Word says,but we cannot predict all that happens beyond what we teach.

If this were the case my brother would still be alive,but his wife would hear nothing of divine healing.

He went back home in another state and died.

He died from results from cancer treatment,cancer is a disease it is a curse,Christ bore our curse.

In our church are cancer survivers many have been healed no more breast,brain,or tumors its gone.

Our Church is not word of faith but they believe God will heal you.

As far as Job go's he was healed and restored all double that was lost.
So whats your point on Job?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

God's Word is always best for our healing...But, at times, fear and worry can creep in. (None of us have arrived yet) ...God also uses Doctors and medicine. So, either way. (John 14:1) "Don't let your heart be troubled, believe in God."

So true what you noted...some of it reminding me of things I think you shared on before in the thread entitled Healing, timing and doctors ...and interesting as well when it comes to the many ways the Lord chooses to heal others in a myriad of ways. I actually bought a book recently at the book store which seemed to speak deeply on the subject you noted (with my originally getting it for my mother who's a physican/woman of faith who often spoke to me on believing in the Lord for healing) - and the name of book I got was God's Prescription for Healing: Five Divine Gifts of Healingby Dr. James P Gills M.D (the forward being by another man of faith known as Dr. Benjamin Carson).

​

In it, Dr. Gill broke down healing into five different types:

1. Natural--illustrated by a cut finger that heals without any attention based on how God designed our bodies to heal/live long when handled properly

2. Assisted--when a physician steps in to assist/is used by God

3. Inner--when Sound preventative advice is given or emotional issues are addressed which impact the physical

4. Improbable--when Bible miracles are covered and there's no explainable way something occurred outside of SUPERNATURAL intervention...

5. Ultimate--when a person enters Heaven in the Resurrected body/state.


​

I was amazed considering the multiple ways that physicians of faith have long noted that walking after the Lord for healing is connected with healing happening in several ways - all of it glorifying the Lord with Him being involved.

Do you, in your view, feel that it is supposed to take a long time or a short time for one to not have their heart be troubled - or does it vary from person to person as they come to trust in God's Word daily?

 

[now faith]

God can heal who He choses. I advice those who have trouble with this to read Job.

So God must regard some more than others?

Do you understand that John 3:16 is conditional upon freewill?

Have you ever heard that God is no respected of persons.

Please do not bring Calvinism into a congressional forum and try to impose it.

 

[Optimus Fortis]

As far as Job go's he was healed and restored all double that was lost.
So whats your point on Job?

It never ceases to amaze me that some Christians love to base their lives and advise others on Job's sufferings but not his uber-prosperity when he came through the Satanic attacks.

Also, Job is set somewhere between Genesis 10 and 20 so quite a bit of water has gone under the bridge since then.

 

[Optimus Fortis]

We have been given an armour of God. This suggests that everything that we attempt to do in the supernatural realm will be contested. Firey darts will at times get past our shield of faith and through our armour and helmets.

There is also the matter of training. Many Christians are going out to battle without learning how to use a sword.

 

[hhodgson]

Do you, in your view, feel that it is supposed to take a long time or a short time for one to not have their heart be troubled - or does it vary from person to person as they come to trust in God's Word daily?

This is what Jesus said to His disciples the (night before) His crucifixion: "Let not your heart be troubled." (John 14:1). Imagine what it would have been like to be one of Jesus' disciples at the end. They "watched" as He was arrested, beaten, and crucified. All of their hopes and dreams were rooted in Him, and then He was dead and seemingly to them, defeated.

The confusion, hurt, and pain from that alone, were probably unbearable to them, and they, themselves, may have thought that they would be next to be rounded up and face the same thing that Jesus did. That was real stress and pressure upon them...

I personally believe that our "first reactions" to a crisis will dictate whether it takes a long or short time, to either overcome or not not to overcome, which "would," vary from person to person in trusting God. The disciples were not to let their heart be troubled, and just believe in what Jesus said...

Same thing for us...


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[now faith]

Yes the timeline has a lot to do with understanding Job.

I would assume he was directly related to Seth,but that is opinion.

One thing it is a theological quagmire,with many debates.

I personally believe the actual meaning is contained in the last Chapters,but thats for another thread.

 

[now faith]

This is what Jesus said to His disciples the (night before) His crucifixion: "Let not your heart be troubled." (John 14:1). Imagine what it would have been like to be one of Jesus' disciples at the end. They "watched" as He was arrested, beaten, and crucified. All of their hopes and dreams were rooted in Him, and then He was dead and seemingly to them, defeated.

The confusion, hurt, and pain from that alone, were probably unbearable to them, and they, themselves, may have thought that they would be next to be rounded up and face the same thing that Jesus did. That was real stress and pressure upon them...

I personally believe that our "first reactions" to a crisis will dictate whether it takes a long or short time, to either overcome or not not to overcome, which "would," vary from person to person in trusting God. The disciples were not to let their heart be troubled, and just believe in what Jesus said...

Same thing for us...


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

Beautifully done Harry

 

[now faith]

We have been given an armour of God. This suggests that everything that we attempt to do in the supernatural realm will be contested. Firey darts will at times get past our shield of faith and through our armour and helmets.

There is also the matter of training. Many Christians are going out to battle without learning how to use a sword.

Our faith should be that we avoid battle altogether....note the should but could may be a truer meaning.

 

[TasManOfGod]

We could avoid battle if sickness saw us as a greater warrior than it was

 

[Grafted In]

I've belonged to churches that I'll refer to as the "name it and claim it" kind of belief, but if that was the case, wouldn't we all be driving new Cadillacs? When He wrote "...ask anything in My name" I tend to think He means if we seek His mind and His wisdom, we will ask for the things He wants us to ask for. That may be a screwball way of looking at it, but that's how I see it. If we truly seek Him He will put His desires in us and having been given that understanding we ask "in His name" and we will receive. JMHO.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Naming something He doesn't want us to claim is better than not claiming anything He wants us to name.

 

[Jedi.Kep]

I've belonged to churches that I'll refer to as the "name it and claim it" kind of belief, but if that was the case, wouldn't we all be driving new Cadillacs?

Nope. That's a misunderstanding of the belief. Kenneth E. Hagin dealt with that time after time after time.

When He wrote "...ask anything in My name" I tend to think He means if we seek His mind and His wisdom, we will ask for the things He wants us to ask for. That may be a screwball way of looking at it, but that's how I see it. If we truly seek Him He will put His desires in us and having been given that understanding we ask "in His name" and we will receive. JMHO.

You've almost got it!

 

[now faith]

Do you suppose Churches take hold of our belief and misunderstand the teaching?

My non denomination Pastor mentions things that he experienced that were extreme in what he calls faith Churches.
With these accounts I can see why we are misunderstood,our teachers simply did not teach that way.

So when we get criticisms,I am going to be more understanding because the critic may have experienced first hand some lunatics misrepresenting W.OF.