Respond to posts

[Oncedeceived]

One is "free", and the other is "not free" - it is limited, constrained, etc.

What evidence do you cite that shows not free is limited or constrained?

Then you have contradicted yourself, with your answer about believing in aliens.

No, I have not contradicted myself. In what way do you think I have?

Misrepresent my position, and an attempt to shift the burden of evidence. Can you not help yourself?

Do you feel for some reason you are free from having to support your own personal position?

That is not what I asked. Do others around you feel the need to repeat questions put to you?

Those around me have no problem with conversations or discussions with me. People on this forum that discuss opposing views with me seem to have problems when the discussion is focused upon themselves and feel their positions are such that they need not defend them.

I do not claim to be immune to any of them. How about you?

That is not what I asked...seems you have the exact same infliction as you claim I suffer from when you are asked questions.

No, but I am open to alternatives with a better track record. Got anything?

If you don't believe that Science is the only way to acquire knowledge why do you limit me to that specific means?

Then gods may only be characters in books?

Either the Christian God exists or there is a being that masquerades as the Christian God and has the ability to manipulate natural events to their will.

No, you said there is a god, or there is a god. I do not recall you ever admitting that gods may only be characters in books. Feel free to correct me on that.

I said that the Christian God exists or I am being led astray by a being that is acting out being the Christian God. I don't believe that I am being led astray. I could be wrong but if I am I have no fear for this being is loving and caring towards me and my family, friends and other believers.

 

[Davian]

What evidence do you cite that shows not free is limited or constrained?

Another attempt to shift the burden of evidence.

No, I have not contradicted myself. In what way do you think I have?

You either have free will, and are free to believe in those alines, or you don't.

Do you feel for some reason you are free from having to support your own personal position?

If you can show that most of mainstream science id wrong, you go for it.

Those around me have no problem with conversations or discussions with me. People on this forum that discuss opposing views with me seem to have problems when the discussion is focused upon themselves and feel their positions are such that they need not defend them.

I don't need to defend mainstream science against those that are anti-science. It's already mainstream.

That is not what I asked...seems you have the exact same infliction as you claim I suffer from when you are asked questions.

How quickly you forget. You answered a question with a question; you have to answer mine first.

If you don't believe that Science is the only way to acquire knowledge why do you limit me to that specific means?

You have misrepresented my position again. Go read what I said.

Either the Christian God exists or there is a being that masquerades as the Christian God and has the ability to manipulate natural events to their will.

That is a declaration that you are infallible about the existence of gods, if those are the only two options that you are open to.

I said that the Christian God exists or I am being led astray by a being that is acting out being the Christian God. I don't believe that I am being led astray. I could be wrong but if I am I have no fear for this being is loving and caring towards me and my family, friends and other believers.

Still driving that Dodge? I will leave you to continue driving that thing in circles if you have no point to make in this thread.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Another attempt to shift the burden of evidence.

The evidence I cite for free will is self-evident. We all have the awareness of making decisions and choices. The fact that those who claim we don't have free will claim our self-evident awareness is just an illusion. It is your burden to prove that something that is self-evident is just an illusion. Got anything?

You either have free will, and are free to believe in those alines, or you don't.

Right, I can freely decide whether or not there are aliens hanging out this weekend if I am convinced of them. The fact that I can either be convinced or not means I have the means to make that determination. Not to have free will would require me to think one way or the other.

If you can show that most of mainstream science id wrong, you go for it.

Have you had a few too many this evening my friend? Your typing is usually very good. I never claimed that mainstream science is "wrong". What do you mean by wrong? Science is neither right nor wrong, it is a means to discover and explain the workings of the natural world. It can and has been wrong about many many things and will be again.

I don't need to defend mainstream science against those that are anti-science. It's already mainstream.

What does that have to do with the quote you are responding to? Your posts are very unlike you tonight.

How quickly you forget. You answered a question with a question; you have to answer mine first.

I believe I answered all of those you asked of me. Which are you referring to?

You have misrepresented my position again. Go read what I said.

Once: I think it is common sense
Davian: Common sense is not science. Common sense tells us we live on a flat Earth and that the cosmos rotates around us.

You said common sense was not science, as if only Science is the only way to acquire knowledge.

Once: Do you think that Science is the only way to acquire knowledge?
Davian: No, but I am open to alternatives with a better track record. Got anything?

Now how have I misrepresented your position?

That is a declaration that you are infallible about the existence of gods, if those are the only two options that you are open to.

I said I could be fallible by being led astray. That is not infallible. If someone were to provide evidence that I was being led astray by some other entity other than the Christian God and I was convinced their evidence was correct I would have to change my mind.

Still driving that Dodge? I will leave you to continue driving that thing in circles if you have no point to make in this thread.

You have free will, you can choose to continue or quit it is your choice.

 

[JasonClark]

If your imagined God knows everything that will ever happen how can you have free will.

 

[AV1611VET]

If your imagined God knows everything that will ever happen how can you have free will.

If I watch the same episode of Mr. Ed one thousand times, so that I know everything that will happen, how can Mr. Ed have free will?

 

[JasonClark]

If I watch the same episode of Mr. Ed one thousand times, so that I know everything that will happen, how can Mr. Ed have free will?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

If Gods knew everything then all we could do would be to feel sorry for them because they would be bored out of their sculls, it's what comes of fallible men trying to design infallible Gods, they end up with more questions than answers and nothing to show for their efforts.

 

[LinearAq]

Free will is the concept that all people are the source of truly free thought and action. Belief is an action of thought. Are we free to actually believe something is true or are we just believing what we have to believe?

Despite the fact that belief is "an action of thought, it may not be controllable by the will. Interpretation of visual stimuli is an action of thought but it is not completely controllable by the will.
For belief to be freely controlled by the will, a person must be able to completely change their beliefs by exerting that will. Can you do this?
Can you change such that you truly believe that you are not legally married to the person you now call your husband?

Can you decide to believe that the books about Harry Potter are biographies rather than fiction, wizards that control spells are real and Hogwarts School of Wizardry resides somewhere in England teaching the next generation of witches and warlocks?

Your contention concerning belief indicates that you can change your beliefs to accept the above descriptions as true. Please make the attempt for one week and give us a report on your success.

 

[LinearAq]

Right, I can freely decide whether or not there are aliens hanging out this weekend if I am convinced of them. The fact that I can either be convinced or not means I have the means to make that determination. Not to have free will would require me to think one way or the other.

This is a confusing statement.
Convince: to move by argument or evidence to belief, agreement, consent, or a course of action.

If belief requires convincing, and convincing requires evidence and/or argument, then belief cannot truly be something you choose.

You said it is a choice. I am not convinced.

 

[Oncedeceived]

If I watch the same episode of Mr. Ed one thousand times, so that I know everything that will happen, how can Mr. Ed have free will?

Exactly.