Respond to posts

[Davian]

If you don't believe in free will, what difference would it make? If we only believe what we have to believe and have no control over what we think, what we think is only what we must think.

I have observed that you cannot freely answer questions put directly to you. You do not exhibit free will.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I have observed that you cannot freely answer questions put directly to you. You do not exhibit free will.

Oh but just the opposite, I am free to think and question. It is within my will to answer and ask or ask and answer or to only ask. It is a smorgasbord of possibilities.

 

[Davian]

Oh but just the opposite, I am free to think and question. It is within my will to answer and ask or ask and answer or to only ask. It is a smorgasbord of possibilities.

So you claim. That is not what I observe in your posts.

 

[Oncedeceived]

So you claim. That is not what I observe in your posts.

I've noticed that your observations are affected by your own personal biases.

 

[Davian]

I've noticed that your observations are affected by your own personal biases.

You will also note that they are well evidenced, even in this thread.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You will also note that they are well evidenced, even in this thread.

Evidence of what exactly, no free will...if I were to never ask a question and just answered questions how would that mean I have free will compared to my asking questions when I am curious? What criteria do you use to make that determination?

 

[Davian]

Evidence of what exactly, no free will...if I were to never ask a question and just answered questions how would that mean I have free will compared to my asking questions when I am curious? What criteria do you use to make that determination?

And now you build a straw-man out of what I said. You cannot help yourself, can you?

 

[Oncedeceived]

And now you build a straw-man out of what I said. You cannot help yourself, can you?

You claimed that I had no free will due to the fact I sometimes ask questions when someone has asked me one. You claimed the evidence was in this thread. Now I am asking you how you have determined that my asking questions when asked a question means I have no free will. No strawman here. How do you determine I have no free will in this scenario?

 

[Davian]

You claimed that I had no free will due to the fact I sometimes ask questions when someone has asked me one. You claimed the evidence was in this thread. Now I am asking you how you have determined that my asking questions when asked a question means I have no free will. No strawman here. How do you determine I have no free will in this scenario?

And now the lame attempt to shift the burden of evidence by misrepresenting my position. I not say that you do not have free will; I said, you do not exhibit free will.

 

[Oncedeceived]

And now the lame attempt to shift the burden of evidence by misrepresenting my position. I not say that you do not have free will; I said, you do not exhibit free will.

Considering that you said you don't believe you have free will, I will attribute your argument to the only one that you can make and therefore not applicable to a truth or false condition.

 

[Davian]

Considering that you said you don't believe you have free will, I will attribute your argument to the only one that you can make and therefore not applicable to a truth or false condition.

Again, you misrepresent my position. The absence of libertarian free will does not preclude the ability to make decisions.

Keep trying, though. You are infallible, are you not?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Again, you misrepresent my position. The absence of libertarian free will does not preclude the ability to make decisions.

Keep trying, though. You are infallible, are you not?

You didn't specify differing types of "free will". I asked if you believed you had free will and you answered no. If and I say if since I don't want to imply something that you might not believe your position is such, but if you hold to the evolutionary view of life, free will is only an illusion. Do you believe free will is an illusion?

I've never claimed I was infallible. Show me where I've ever said I was infallible or retract.

 

[Davian]

You didn't specify differing types of "free will".

Well, there is "free" will, and "not free" will.

I asked if you believed you had free will and you answered no.

Indeed.

If and I say if since I don't want to imply something that you might not believe your position is such, but if you hold to the evolutionary view of life, free will is only an illusion.

It would appear so. Watch what happens when I ask you a direct question, like this: Can you choose to believe that Earth is being visited by extraterrestrial aliens for the remainder of the week?

Do you believe free will is an illusion?

That is where the evidence leads me.

I've never claimed I was infallible. Show me where I've ever said I was infallible or retract.

Theism is home and hosed. It's all over bar the shouting.

A god exists, or a god exists. I do not see an option where you admit that you could be wrong about gods existing.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Well, there is "free" will, and "not free" will.

Right, do you have "free" Will or "not free will?"

Indeed.

"Free will" or "not Free will"?

It would appear so. Watch what happens when I ask you a direct question, like this: Can you choose to believe that Earth is being visited by extraterrestrial aliens for the remainder of the week?

I could if I were convinced there were extraterrestrial aliens visiting for the weekend, yes.

That is where the evidence leads me.

So you don't rely on your own experience that tells you that you have the choice to choose options available to you on your own volition?

Theism is home and hosed. It's all over bar the shouting.

I think it is common sense that we are infallible in some areas of our lives. I know what my name is and have 100% certainty of that fact. I know I am 5 feet tall. I have 100% certainty of that fact. I am not and have never claimed to be infallible.

A god exists, or a god exists. I do not see an option where you admit that you could be wrong about gods existing.

It is what it is.

 

[Davian]

Right, do you have "free" Will or "not free will?"



"Free will" or "not Free will"?

I just answered that. Have you forgotten?

I could if I were convinced there were extraterrestrial aliens visiting for the weekend, yes.

That would put you in the "not free will" camp with me.

So you don't rely on your own experience that tells you that you have the choice to choose options available to you on your own volition?

My own experiences are not 100% reliable. I could be imagining things, due to drugs, fatigue, or a bonk on the head; what I rely are experiences that can be verified with objective evidence.

Are you immune to the following?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memory_biases

I think it is common sense

Common sense is not science. Common sense tells us we live on a flat Earth and that the cosmos rotates around us.

that we are infallible in some areas of our lives. I know what my name is and have 100% certainty of that fact. I know I am 5 feet tall. I have 100% certainty of that fact. I am not and have never claimed to be infallible.

In one paragraph you claim to be infallible in some areas of your life, to be 100% certain, and not infallible.

It is what it is.

If you consider yourself infallible on your position that gods exist, that would be declaring yourself infallible.

 

[JasonClark]

I know I am 5 feet tall. I have 100% certainty of that fact.

Then you are wrong because it depends at what time of day you measure your height, you will be shorter in the evening than you were in the morning because your spine compresses as you move about during the day, in tall people the difference can be as much as 1/2 an inch, in shorter people not so much.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I just answered that. Have you forgotten?

Nope, just not clear on your definitions or types of "free will and not free will".

That would put you in the "not free will" camp with me.

One must have a will that is free to make determinations or choices. I do not reside in the "not free will" camp.

My own experiences are not 100% reliable. I could be imagining things, due to drugs, fatigue, or a bonk on the head; what I rely are experiences that can be verified with objective evidence.

What objective evidence do you cite that only those experiences that can be verified by objective evidence are reliable?

Are you immune to the following?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memory_biases

I don't feel that any relate to me.

Do you feel you are a victim of any of these scenarios?

Common sense is not science. Common sense tells us we live on a flat Earth and that the cosmos rotates around us.

Do you think that Science is the only way to acquire knowledge?

In one paragraph you claim to be infallible in some areas of your life, to be 100% certain, and not infallible.

No one is infallible. I am not infallible, I am infallible in certain things in my life. I infallibly know that I am married, I know my three children are my children. Everyone has the ability and recognizes that there are absolute truths and those truths can be known which means that to acknowledge their truth is infallible.

If you consider yourself infallible on your position that gods exist, that would be declaring yourself infallible.

I said I could be wrong, I expressed what was necessary for me to be wrong.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Then you are wrong because it depends at what time of day you measure your height, you will be shorter in the evening than you were in the morning because your spine compresses as you move about during the day, in tall people the difference can be as much as 1/2 an inch, in shorter people not so much.

Then I am wrong at some point in the day.

 

[bhsmte]

I have observed that you cannot freely answer questions put directly to you. You do not exhibit free will.

Maybe not answering direct questions is something she is motivated to do.

 

[Davian]

Nope, just not clear on your definitions or types of "free will and not free will".

One is "free", and the other is "not free" - it is limited, constrained, etc.

One must have a will that is free to make determinations or choices. I do not reside in the "not free will" camp.

Then you have contradicted yourself, with your answer about believing in aliens.

What objective evidence do you cite that only those experiences that can be verified by objective evidence are reliable?

Misrepresent my position, and an attempt to shift the burden of evidence. Can you not help yourself?

I don't feel that any relate to me.

That is not what I asked. Do others around you feel the need to repeat questions put to you?

Do you feel you are a victim of any of these scenarios?

I do not claim to be immune to any of them. How about you?

Do you think that Science is the only way to acquire knowledge?

No, but I am open to alternatives with a better track record. Got anything?

No one is infallible. I am not infallible, I am infallible in certain things in my life. I infallibly know that I am married, I know my three children are my children. Everyone has the ability and recognizes that there are absolute truths and those truths can be known which means that to acknowledge their truth is infallible.

Then gods may only be characters in books?

I said I could be wrong, I expressed what was necessary for me to be wrong.

No, you said there is a god, or there is a god. I do not recall you ever admitting that gods may only be characters in books. Feel free to correct me on that.