Respect

[roflcopter101]

Nothing is sacred.

 

[david_x]

I see Christians here and elsewhere constantly demanding respect for their beliefs. So when a Christian here writes that to get respect, I have to give it first, it looks like another demand to me. He’s not saying what he would do; he’s telling me what I have to do.

So sue me for assuming the best.

 

[3sigma]

Ah, so everyone who was asking where this was going, you have your answer, and predictably so.

I was explaining why Godschild87’s post looked like a demand to me. It was based on my past experience with Christians, with him in particular and with his wording in this case. In the past, he has demanded that I show respect and here again he was telling me what I have to do.

Do you think that Christians don’t demand respect for their beliefs or that doing so is admirable and makes them worthy of respect?

 

[Supernaut]

I was explaining why Godschild87’s post looked like a demand to me. It was based on my past experience with Christians, with him in particular and with his wording in this case. In the past, he has demanded that I show respect and here again he was telling me what I have to do.

It seems many on CF have a particularly hard time with both wording and discernment in regards to others posts. Their posts are also quite rude in their chosen responses. Very irritating to the point that I stop contact with these people.

Do you think that Christians don’t demand respect for their beliefs or that doing so is admirable and makes them worthy of respect?

At times they demand too much. Within their own ranks they have major respect issues.

 

[Tzaousios]

Do you think that Christians don’t demand respect for their beliefs or that doing so is admirable and makes them worthy of respect?

When the discussion is between two Christians, respect is more likely to be shown by both sides without prompting. However, when it is an atheist "discussing" with a Christian, it is usually a one-sided game considering the former's intent and motive.

 

[Freysinn]

Respect is two way.

 

[david_x]

Respect is two way.

Not always. I've disrespected people who remained respectful to me, visa versa.

 

[Maren]

When the discussion is between two Christians, respect is more likely to be shown by both sides without prompting. However, when it is an atheist "discussing" with a Christian, it is usually a one-sided game considering the former's intent and motive.

Umm... what "intent and motive" are you attributing to atheists? And may I suggest what appears to be your attitude here is the reason that some atheists have problems respecting Christians -- because Christians not only do not give them respect but even accuse them of having some nefarious motive. Further, there are plenty of examples on these forums of respect not being given when one Christian doesn't regard the other as Christian, such as with "liberal Christians" or people of unorthodox beliefs (Mormonism being one example).

 

[Zebra1552]

On the contrary—and not unexpectedly—your solution would never work. What you are saying is that you demand to be respected by others before you will respect them. …And if they follow your advice and demand the same, what then? If we employed your illogical method then no one would ever respect anyone.

Did you even read what I wrote? To get respect you first have to give it. That says nothing about any sort of demands...

 

[RocketRed]

Typically when people demand to have their views "respected", they are likely using it to say that you should "have regard or consideration for" -- that you just don't dismiss the idea out of hand because it isn't your idea.

Very often the idea of respect is even based on the idea of the next definition, such as when gays say they want respect. They are not demanding that you consider them "worthy of high regard", rather they are wanting others to "refrain from intruding" or "interfering" in their lives.



I think most of the problem here is that words such as "respect" and "tolerance" have a wide range of definitions and people often craft arguments like you are here saying that respect has to be earned when people ask to be respected, when typically all they mean is that we should be courteous to them and respect their rights as a human.

I absolutely agree with this. The word and concept vary according to the context. In a debate, I believe that would mean, as Maren said, showing consideration and regard for another's opinions. Ditto on the gay example.

I think that if a person enters a debate or discussion dismissing all dissenting opinions as unworthy or stupid, there's little point in starting debate in the first place. Because then it devolves into a verbal slap-fight instead of a well-matched exchange of ideas and disagreements. Respect, in the aforementioned aspect, is absolutely key there.

As for the matter of putting force behind a demand for respect of one's views, that would not encourage my respect. It's earned far more when someone can articulate calmly without coming to incendiary words.

 

[shinbits]

Respect shouldn't always be earned. For example, there's a basic level of respect all people should give each other, even if they just met, hence having not "earned" it yet in the other person's eyes.

Another example are people in authority. A cop may not have "earned" respect in someone's eyes, but they are still due a certain level of respect.

Also, I imagine that most people would respect a lion enough to not invade it's territory. In my opinion, it's stupid not to respect that lion's power.

So not all respect should be "earned". Sometimes, respect should just be given.

 

[3sigma]

Did you even read what I wrote? To get respect you first have to give it. That says nothing about any sort of demands...

Will you give me respect if I don’t give you respect?

 

[3sigma]

So not all respect should be "earned". Sometimes, respect should just be given.

What about when respect is demanded or forced? If I demanded that you respect my views or tried to force you to respect my views, would you be more inclined or less inclined to respect them and me?

 

[pdudgeon]

respect is something to be freely given, not compelled.
in the case you cited above

What about when respect is demanded or forced? If I demanded that you respect my views or tried to force you to respect my views, would you be more inclined or less inclined to respect them and me?

obedience can be forced or compelled, but not respect.

 

[TheBlueBlurr]

Respect shouldn't always be earned. For example, there's a basic level of respect all people should give each other, even if they just met, hence having not "earned" it yet in the other person's eyes.

Another example are people in authority. A cop may not have "earned" respect in someone's eyes, but they are still due a certain level of respect.

Also, I imagine that most people would respect a lion enough to not invade it's territory. In my opinion, it's stupid not to respect that lion's power.

So not all respect should be "earned". Sometimes, respect should just be given.

Authority doesn't grant you respect.

 

[shinbits]

Authority doesn't grant you respect.

True. But you should respect those in authority. Like cops.

 

[shinbits]

What about when respect is demanded or forced? If I demanded that you respect my views or tried to force you to respect my views, would you be more inclined or less inclined to respect them and me?

Again, it depends on situation. We are forced to respect cops by law. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[3sigma]

Again, it depends on situation. We are forced to respect cops by law. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

I’m not a cop. I’m just an ordinary person. I have no authority. So, again, if I demanded that you respect my views or tried to force you to respect my views, would you be more inclined or less inclined to respect them and me?

 

[shinbits]

I’m not a cop. I’m just an ordinary person. I have no authority. So, again, if I demanded that you respect my views or tried to force you to respect my views, would you be more inclined or less inclined to respect them and me?

I'd be less inclined.

 

[Tzaousios]

Umm... what "intent and motive" are you attributing to atheists?

Examine 3sigma's recent posts before this thread and I think you will get a good idea. There are many others who follow the same pattern. Somehow, though, I think you already know what I am talking about.

And may I suggest what appears to be your attitude here is the reason that some atheists have problems respecting Christians

And what, may I ask, is this attitude?

because Christians not only do not give them respect but even accuse them of having some nefarious motive.

What other motives do they have, when it comes to discussing the Christian faith, other than to criticize or denigrate, whether implicitly or explicitly, that faith?

It is either this or to gather information on how Christians talk about their faith and the types of argumentation that they use so as to better criticize their faith. Apparently Christians are various kinds of animals in cages to be studied and dissected.

Further, there are plenty of examples on these forums of respect not being given when one Christian doesn't regard the other as Christian, such as with "liberal Christians" or people of unorthodox beliefs (Mormonism being one example).

Well, there are always exceptions. I am quite willing to be surprised by an atheist who is willing to show respect to Christians and to want to discuss their beliefs for other reasons than those that I listed above.

As for unorthodox or liberal Christians, I can tell you personally that I have tried to maintain a level of respect when discussing things with them.