Resisting evil

[jameshjr]

[/QUOTE="Francisco Gonzalez, post: 76704787, member: 443903"]Hi James. Do you like games? Like kicking a ball against a wall or trying to score trash into the bin? When you were younger, did you stare at the TV screen to see if the DVD logo would hit the corner of the screen eventually?

As you know, I tried to reach you via a message, but you did not respond.

This, it seems, is an excellent opportunity to forgive people who insult and disrespect me.

Thank you, brother.

I will keep you in my prayers,

God bless,

James.

 

[tturt]

OP - One of our pastors would say - they're in our lives to help us grow spiritually.

In the office, I would think surely I'm grown up by now!!

 

[jameshjr]

[/QUOTE="Francisco Gonzalez, post: 76704787, member: 443903"]Hi James. Do you like games? Like kicking a ball against a wall or trying to score trash into the bin? When you were younger, did you stare at the TV screen to see if the DVD logo would hit the corner of the screen eventually?

 

[aiki]

Hello all, I hope that you are well,

I'm used to being disrespected, and have gotten pretty good at ignoring insults- or not retaliating to them.

However, yesterday, at work, a horrible young woman was doing her best to sabotage, slander and upset me.

This culminated in her asking me to do something (shouting to me from another room) which I said I would do.

Thirty seconds later she gets up, stomps past me and says, not to me, but loud enough for me to hear in a sarcastic, disrespectful tone , "you eat your sandwich, I'll do it" (I was eating at the time).

This was a step too far for me and I resolved to 'have her' on her behaviour.

When she was back, I told her that I thought that she had a bad attitude. To which she replied, " why" then immediately back peddled on what she had said, and tried to change the meaning of what she said, then, without me being able to say anything, she got upset and began talking about her ADHD and her autism. She then said she didn't want to have an argument with me and left.

With some perspective, I have been thinking about Matthew 5, specifically where it says to not resist evil.

I wanted to get some opinions as to when you put your foot down with unsaved people who treat you badly. And are you striving to be more and more tolerant of being persecuted and ill-treated?

Thanks,

God bless,

James

Jesus had very distinct boundaries. Recall how he treated his enemies, the Pharisees, calling them out on their hypocrisy very harshly (ie. "white washed tombs full of corpses," "sons of hell," "brood of vipers," "hypocrites" - Matthew 23). Jesus didn't cut any slack for Peter, either, when Peter urged him not to face the cross. "Get behind me, Satan," was Jesus' curt reply to his foolish disciple (Matthew 16:23). Jesus was pretty blunt, too, with his own family who, in the middle of one of his public addresses, indicated they wanted to speak with him. He responded, saying,

Luke 8:21
21 ..."My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

Yikes.

Of course, Jesus wasn't going about constantly barking at folks, flaring in irritation when they imposed themselves on him and demanding they respect his boundaries. There was a perfect balance of "this far and no farther" and appropriate tenderness, grace and patience in his dealings with people.

How do you and I approach this balance? By being constantly under the control of the Holy Spirit. The more he is ordering your thinking, attitudes and conduct, the more like Christ you will be. Really, the Spirit is wanting to express himself - who is called in Scripture "the Spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9) - through you; he is not intending you should manufacture your own version of what you hope is Christ-likeness. But he won't compel you to be the vessel of his power and Person that you were created to be. Loving you, he waits on your agreement to his doing so, given in your conscious, daily submission to him, before he expresses himself powerfully in and through you. (Matthew 6:10; Luke 22:42; Romans 6:13-22; Romans 8:13-14; James 4:7-10; 1 Peter 5:6, etc.)

When the Spirit is in control of you, he will move you both to establish and maintain with gracious firmness proper boundaries with others.

 

[Wyatt A.]

It is difficult because I can see what is happening in my work place and how 'they' are working against me.

I remember that the Lord teaches not to worry. Sometimes it is hard.

I would think that to earn their respect I would have to stand up for myself, but I am not sure that Jesus teachings in Matthew 5 allow this; therefore I should get comfortable with being disrespected?

Nooo. You are to be mighty in deed and power. You are to be a source of light.
What did the Peter do when Ananias and Sapphira held back some of their money and lied about it? (Which was a form of disrespect). Did the apostles let them walk over them and get away with it? Noooo. He called them out on it and they fell down dead.

I'm not suggesting you do anything like that, I'm suggesting if you stand on the truth they will see their actions for what they are and be convicted by them. You are not to fall back again to their level. You have been called to something higher and better. They should be corrected by your actions and words. There is a right and wrong way to talk to people and to treat people.

Bring in something good to drink for the work place that everyone will be unable to resist. An expensive box of individual instant green tea packets. But don't be obvious about it. It might make them think about how they treat other people.

 

[jameshjr]

From a lot of experience, I know the best help of all (along with the good points like for example in post 6, where you get it's her own thing, and not about you...).

This -->

What Christ gave us (knowing we would need it) to pray each day -- a prayer for exactly the very aid we most need to help us against evil situations, and more:

Matthew 6:9 Context: Pray like this: 'Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. (verses 9-13)

I can testify to you this prayer is very powerful for us in exactly these kinds of situations as you just described! I have even had more than just a few times when I had forgotten to pray this prayer or had not yet prayed it, and there was conflict with someone, and then I took a minute (in another room) to pray this prayer, and came back and the conflict was entirely gone.

Like it had never even happened.

It is so...amazing, that you know it's God's doing.

We must, as we read in Mark chapter 11 pray with belief it will be given to us, as Christ said is required. And since this prayer is from Christ Himself, you can have that total belief/faith as you pray it that God will help you.

Hello there, thank you for this. I will definitely start trying this when in similar situations

 

[jameshjr]

L

In that case, I think you should reconsider this: "I disagree. ADHD and autism are not in the bible and if they were not valid then, then i do not think they are valid today."

I'm no expert on ADHD or autism, but just because the bible doesn't mention them doesn't mean they don't exist. The bible doesn't mention cancer either. Who knows what todays chemicals and poisons in our water and food does to us all?

"She uses them as excuses to behave badly and avoid any consequences for her behaviour"
You don't know that. Humility requires that you consider that you could be wrong.
It's always okay to correct someone when they're wrong about something. But if it's a bad attitude you can't just say you have a bad attitude and expect them to change. Something is making her feel that way. Sometimes it's something someone is believing that creates their attitude. Sometimes it's something bad happening in their lives. Sometimes it's physical pain. Sometimes it's chemical imbalance, hormonal imbalance. Sometimes they just need more sleep, less bills to pay, etc...

But seriously, I think you need to first look into the autism thing. Don't just dismiss it out of hand. You may not be able to help her.

Jesus never reviled against his crucifiers. If we sincerely pray for those who persecute us it does move God.


I believe you.

Hello, sorry for the late reply. I have been busy with work and i have also been mulling over what you wrote.

Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my judgement over ADhd and autism I had not considered the effects that water and chemicals in food could have (not to mention modern forms of entertainment) on people's minds.

I do however think that I am correct in some degree that she uses these labels as excuses to do as she wishes. Though I cannot know this, it is the strong impression that I get.

The bad attitude comment was a way to bring the subject up in order to discuss my issues with her, but as I said, that was the only thing I had space to say to her during the confrontation.

In hindsight, I would either ignore it or bring it up in a much more calm, polite and loving way, but I was angry with her for all that she is doing against me.

I always forget that we are not at war with flesh and therefore I do take it personally when attacked and also blame to a degree the person who is attacking me. I know that I need to learn to see people attacking me as vessels for evil spirits to hurt me (to make me a bad witness).

True that Jesus did not revile against his crucifiers. I have thought about this and Jesus only really was strong against religious people of his day. I cannot think of an occasion of him using the word against non believers to chastise them, perhaps this is a case of : do not feed that which is holy to the dogs. As you say, to the romans who treated him awfully, he took it and interceded for them : they know not what they do.

I guess I still have a lot of growing to do.

 

[jameshjr]

Jesus had very distinct boundaries. Recall how he treated his enemies, the Pharisees, calling them out on their hypocrisy very harshly (ie. "white washed tombs full of corpses," "sons of hell," "brood of vipers," "hypocrites" - Matthew 23). Jesus didn't cut any slack for Peter, either, when Peter urged him not to face the cross. "Get behind me, Satan," was Jesus' curt reply to his foolish disciple (Matthew 16:23). Jesus was pretty blunt, too, with his own family who, in the middle of one of his public addresses, indicated they wanted to speak with him. He responded, saying,

Luke 8:21
21 ..."My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

Yikes.

Of course, Jesus wasn't going about constantly barking at folks, flaring in irritation when they imposed themselves on him and demanding they respect his boundaries. There was a perfect balance of "this far and no farther" and appropriate tenderness, grace and patience in his dealings with people.

How do you and I approach this balance? By being constantly under the control of the Holy Spirit. The more he is ordering your thinking, attitudes and conduct, the more like Christ you will be. Really, the Spirit is wanting to express himself - who is called in Scripture "the Spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9) - through you; he is not intending you should manufacture your own version of what you hope is Christ-likeness. But he won't compel you to be the vessel of his power and Person that you were created to be. Loving you, he waits on your agreement to his doing so, given in your conscious, daily submission to him, before he expresses himself powerfully in and through you. (Matthew 6:10; Luke 22:42; Romans 6:13-22; Romans 8:13-14; James 4:7-10; 1 Peter 5:6, etc.)

When the Spirit is in control of you, he will move you both to establish and maintain with gracious firmness proper boundaries with others.

Hello Aiki, thanks for the message. I am young christian (two years) and I still have a lot of learning to do.

With time and experience, I do believe that I will get used to 'yielding' to the spirit and will therefore be better at handling these types of situations

 

[jameshjr]

Nooo. You are to be mighty in deed and power. You are to be a source of light.
What did the Peter do when Ananias and Sapphira held back some of their money and lied about it? (Which was a form of disrespect). Did the apostles let them walk over them and get away with it? Noooo. He called them out on it and they fell down dead.

I'm not suggesting you do anything like that, I'm suggesting if you stand on the truth they will see their actions for what they are and be convicted by them. You are not to fall back again to their level. You have been called to something higher and better. They should be corrected by your actions and words. There is a right and wrong way to talk to people and to treat people.

Bring in something good to drink for the work place that everyone will be unable to resist. An expensive box of individual instant green tea packets. But don't be obvious about it. It might make them think about how they treat other people.

Hello there, thank you for the message. I will be honest here: I am not very familiar with the book of acts.

I take your point, but I have noticed a distinction between how Jesus treated religious people and those who were not religious

It seems that he was sharp when correcting people who had a belief in God, but we're incorrect in their thinking/behaviour.

However, I think that to those who had little to no knowledge of God, like the Roman soldiers who abused him, He did not say anything to correct them, He actually interceded for them instead.

If I am right in this then it would seem the best way to help non believers who persecute us is to forgive them and bless them when they persecute us.

 

[Halbhh]

Hello there, thank you for this. I will definitely start trying this when in similar situations

I've learned by experience to aim to pray this each day, preferably in the morning, before any potential troubles arise (which we can't predict always). I've learned to always pray this before going onto an internet forum for example, because for instance sometimes some atheists will try to tempt you into being prideful or to even the score after they do ad hominem attacks. We learn that we should not try to even the score --

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20On the contrary:

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”
21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12 NIV

By returning good in return for someone's insults/put downs towards you -- instead of putting them down also -- you help awaken their conscience, and thus better help them have a chance to listen to the Word, to hear God's call.

So, the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6 is more than just a sometimes-aid, it's an everyday need for us, in my experience.

 

[childeye 2]

L


Hello, sorry for the late reply. I have been busy with work and i have also been mulling over what you wrote.

Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my judgement over ADhd and autism I had not considered the effects that water and chemicals in food could have (not to mention modern forms of entertainment) on people's minds.

I do however think that I am correct in some degree that she uses these labels as excuses to do as she wishes. Though I cannot know this, it is the strong impression that I get.

The bad attitude comment was a way to bring the subject up in order to discuss my issues with her, but as I said, that was the only thing I had space to say to her during the confrontation.

In hindsight, I would either ignore it or bring it up in a much more calm, polite and loving way, but I was angry with her for all that she is doing against me.

I always forget that we are not at war with flesh and therefore I do take it personally when attacked and also blame to a degree the person who is attacking me. I know that I need to learn to see people attacking me as vessels for evil spirits to hurt me (to make me a bad witness).

True that Jesus did not revile against his crucifiers. I have thought about this and Jesus only really was strong against religious people of his day. I cannot think of an occasion of him using the word against non believers to chastise them, perhaps this is a case of : do not feed that which is holy to the dogs. As you say, to the romans who treated him awfully, he took it and interceded for them : they know not what they do.

I guess I still have a lot of growing to do.

Excellent swordplay. This is what defeats Satan in our thoughts and expels darkness from the heart. Because it is Light to your soul to know the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[jameshjr]

I've learned by experience to aim to pray this each day, preferably in the morning, before any potential troubles arise (which we can't predict always). I've learned to always pray this before going onto an internet forum for example, because for instance sometimes some atheists will try to tempt you into being prideful or to even the score after they do ad hominem attacks. We learn that we should not try to even the score --

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20On the contrary:

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”
21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12 NIV

By returning good in return for someone's insults/put downs towards you -- instead of putting them down also -- you help awaken their conscience, and thus better help them have a chance to listen to the Word, to hear God's call.

So, the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6 is more than just a sometimes-aid, it's an everyday need for us, in my experience.

Thank you again Halbhh. I have already begun to do as you suggested, and I will definitely think more on what you have saod

 

[jameshjr]

Excellent swordplay. This is what defeats Satan in our thoughts and expels darkness from the heart. Because it is Light to your soul to know the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

Thank you for your help with this.

Proverbs 27:17.

 

[1watchman]

Hello all, I hope that you are well,

I'm used to being disrespected, and have gotten pretty good at ignoring insults- or not retaliating to them.

However, yesterday, at work, a horrible young woman was doing her best to sabotage, slander and upset me.

This culminated in her asking me to do something (shouting to me from another room) which I said I would do.

Thirty seconds later she gets up, stomps past me and says, not to me, but loud enough for me to hear in a sarcastic, disrespectful tone , "you eat your sandwich, I'll do it" (I was eating at the time).

This was a step too far for me and I resolved to 'have her' on her behaviour.

When she was back, I told her that I thought that she had a bad attitude. To which she replied, " why" then immediately back peddled on what she had said, and tried to change the meaning of what she said, then, without me being able to say anything, she got upset and began talking about her ADHD and her autism. She then said she didn't want to have an argument with me and left.

With some perspective, I have been thinking about Matthew 5, specifically where it says to not resist evil.

I wanted to get some opinions as to when you put your foot down with unsaved people who treat you badly. And are you striving to be more and more tolerant of being persecuted and ill-treated?

Thanks,

God bless,

James

You got your answer --her mental incapacity; and now you are angry with her???
You might try to show some understanding and allow that she was out of control due to her limitations, which is a mental problem. Show a little patience, and try to be supportive of such a one, and she might be thankful later. A Christian needs to seek the good of others, rather than 'loud-mouth' them, I would say.