Republicans' appalling comments can tip the scale for undecided voters-IMHO

[Sean611]

Romney and Obama both take money from the same corrupt banks (Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Chase) and crony corporate entities, there is no significant difference, both men support corrupt banks and corporations and bailing them out. These companies are also the ones who have received bailouts and goverment appointments by Obama (Romney will do the same thing). The Obama administration is filled with Goldman-Sachs people. Wake up people!!

Contributions to Romney and Obama chart:

Romney’s & Obama’s Bankster Donors: Goldman, Morgan, Chase, etc.

 

[razeontherock]

So Sean, are you voting for Obamney, or Romnama?

 

[Sean611]

So Sean, are you voting for Obamney, or Romnama?

Gary Johnson

 

[Anna Scott]

Of course they can.

"[M]y job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives" is in direct contradiction to "I care about 100 percent of Americans"---not to mention Romney's insulting comments about the 47%.

The question becomes, are people really going to make decisions based on bad information? And apparently the answer to that, is "yes." It's always easier to not understand.

To what "bad information" are you referring?

 

[ElijahW]

No it's not, but you are taking the "you didn't build that" to it's objectionable progression!

Pride often gets in the way of seeing grace.

I think he didn't go into detail on that point, and didn't consider it relevant to the moment. Have you seen the video?

I think if we want to know what Romney thinks on that particular issue, we would need to hear him address it. And then the question becomes, what would his actions be on that point? I'm not sure POTUS holds a lot of sway either way here

I think that you have two choices, either he is saying what he believes, or he is lying. I would rather believe he was speaking the truth because assuming he is person who would compromise their true beliefs about the poor to get elected is more insulting to assume, and I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I don’t know why you are assuming he is a liar or how you think that helps his case.

 

[razeontherock]

"[M]y job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives" is in direct contradiction to "I care about 100 percent of Americans"---not to mention Romney's insulting comments about the 47%.

No, it's not. He was clearly speaking in context of attempting to get votes; i.e., campaigning. This is entirely distinct from not caring about people. For example, I could give up on ever pursuading you as a person on a specific point. That doesn't mean I want you to die on the street, cold and hungry. I'm sure you can see the difference?

I also think his 47% figure is just plain wrong, and did when I first watched that vid. I have no idea what he actually thinks on the subject, and/or if he was just being brief to stay on task at his fund raising function. I do think our Nation's greatest opportunity for fighting poverty is within the poor themselves, and that they are a great untapped resource. I would like to see our Gov't do more to actually stimulate that sector of We the People, and think it's a much better investment than bailing out corporations.

People criticize Romney for not having a position, but I'm not really sure how a President's stance on this particular issue would matter that much. His role is not to micro-manage every detail, but to appoint a task force and preside over their findings. I haven't seen Obama do that effectively, and would prefer to see Elmer Fudd in that office.

 

[razeontherock]

I think that you have two choices, either he is saying what he believes, or he is lying.

False dichotomy. Life really isn't that simple. Did you actually watch the video?

 

[ElijahW]

False dichotomy. Life really isn't that simple. Did you actually watch the video?

Excluding the middle actually.

Law of excluded middle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Anna Scott]

Sean,

I appreciate your accepting my invitation to comment on this thread. We need the "third party" perspective.

I think the rape comments being made by these politicians is appalling. In some cases, especially in the case of Akin, it could sway the vote to the Democrat. I'm really shocked Akin didn't bow out. All of this being said, I think that these comments don't represent the view of almost any Republicans and i'd say they are being used as political propaganda by the Democrats.

Of course the Democrats are using the comments, but these statements about rape are real. They can be read in context on numerous news sites.

Afterall, if Democrats actually ran on their record this year and what they've "accomplished" in the White House and Congress, they'd be finished. So, in true political form, they are resorting to "dirty" ads, name calling, and insults. Don't get me wrong, the Repubs do it too, but not to the extent of the Democrats....the whole thing is shameful in my eyes.

Yes, they are both bringing out the mudslinging in full force. No argument.

The best way for undecided voters to send the two corrupt and abusive major parites a message is either by staying at home or by voting for third party candidates. Many polls are actually showing that most undecided voters are undecided because the "real" differences between Obama and Romney are very very small. The only people who are actually fired up about this elections are the die-hard supporters of the two corrupt parties.

I've considered voting third party. I think we had a discussion about this not too long ago. I guess, I'm not convinced it would help the situation; but I could be wrong and often am.

For me, I have spent nearly all my life as a conservative Republican. After Ron Paul exploded onto the scene, I realized that the vast majority of elected Republicans are not fiscal conservatives and that Republican's foreign policy platform of high military spending and policing the world is a joke. Not only that, I think Republicans fail on the test of civil liberties as well (marriage, Patriot Act, marijuana). . . . . . . .

Well, Sean, there has been plenty of "ranting" on this thread, and most have not been as friendly.

I've remained undecided for so long, because I see two bad choices for President. It's been a matter of trying to determine which is the "best bad choice"----terrible predicament. I've talked to a number of people in the same situation.

The whole point of this thread is to consider how these comments, quoted in my OP, can tip the scales for the undecided voter.

If I don't like either candidate, but feel I must choose one---comments have more of an effect than usual.

The reality is when the intellectual aspect of weighing the issues is exhausted, and neither candidate is acceptable; emotions enter the equation and often break the tie.

The rape comments hit a nerve with me, because I am a rape survivor.

Romney's comments about the 47% struck a nerve, because they make him sound cold, heartless, and only interested in his wealthy friends. Who wants to vote for someone who dismisses half of America?

So, that brings me to the thread topic: Republicans' appalling comments can tip the scale for undecided voters. I realize that can also be said of appalling statements made by Democrats, though that is not the topic here. However, as I noted above, the Republican comments really hit a nerve for me personally.

From an intellectual standpoint; I realize publication of scandalous comments and actions are timed for release at the most opportune moment---meant to inflict the most damage possible to one's opponent. I get that. The thing is, sometimes this strategy works.

Thanks for weighing in Sean.

Maybe by next election, I'll be voting third party too. You just never know.

Peace and blessings,
Anna

 

[Illuminaughty]

Romney and Obama both take money from the same corrupt banks (Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Chase) and crony corporate entities, there is no significant difference, both men support corrupt banks and corporations and bailing them out. These companies are also the ones who have received bailouts and goverment appointments by Obama (Romney will do the same thing). The Obama administration is filled with Goldman-Sachs people. Wake up people!!

So true. Both are bought and paid for by the same people.

 

[razeontherock]

S
I've remained undecided for so long, because I see two bad choices for President.

If I don't like either candidate, but feel I must choose one---comments have more of an effect than usual.

The reality is when the intellectual aspect of weighing the issues is exhausted, and neither candidate is acceptable; emotions enter the equation and often break the tie.

The rape comments hit a nerve with me, because I am a rape survivor.

Romney's comments about the 47% struck a nerve, because they make him sound cold, heartless, and only interested in his wealthy friends. Who wants to vote for someone who dismisses half of America?

Thank you for your honesty, Anna. I think this is a very deserving cold, hard look at the state of this election, and i wish every voter would consider this side of things you present here. I think it's quite true that which sorts of things an individual finds more blatantly offensive, those done by D's or by R's, is a matter of personality. It'd be TERRIBLE if that is what actually determines the outcomes of this election!?

I remind that where our votes really count, is at the local level, and especially Judges if those are elected in your area. I'd love a stat of how many voters have any idea what Judge they should vote for, on any legitimate basis? At the Presidential level, I have to wonder if say an 8% write-in / 3rd party combined voter turn out might turn some heads, and get through to the major parties that they are NOT representing us. Of course if that 8% were comprised half and half of those leaning R and D, that would be better.

I also have to wonder if all the mudslinging and disinformation isn't an intentional effort to reduce voter turnout, increasing the amount of power wielded by the few.

 

[Anna Scott]

Thank you for your honesty, Anna. I think this is a very deserving cold, hard look at the state of this election, and i wish every voter would consider this side of things you present here. I think it's quite true that which sorts of things an individual finds more blatantly offensive, those done by D's or by R's, is a matter of personality. It'd be TERRIBLE if that is what actually determines the outcomes of this election!?

The problem I think you are touching on here, and it is a valid one, is that many voters decide based almost entirely on emotion, without a serious consideration of all the issues, positions, and plans of each candidate. The candidates' passionate speeches, which often lack any serious content, stir up crowds and people get carried away. There are voters who will vote for their candidate no matter what he/she does or says.

I think it is important to understand what drives our decision making; and I explained mine. I appreciate your acknowledging my "cold hard look at this election."

I remind that where our votes really count, is at the local level, and especially Judges if those are elected in your area. I'd love a stat of how many voters have any idea what Judge they should vote for, on any legitimate basis? At the Presidential level, I have to wonder if say an 8% write-in / 3rd party combined voter turn out might turn some heads, and get through to the major parties that they are NOT representing us. Of course if that 8% were comprised half and half of those leaning R and D, that would be better.

I also have to wonder if all the mudslinging and disinformation isn't an intentional effort to reduce voter turnout, increasing the amount of power wielded by the few.

Excellent points.

I agree that the local elections are very important and often neglected by voters.

I think all of us are tired of the mudslinging. Even in the Presidential debates, both candidates spent too much time criticizing each other rather than clearly laying out their plans for this country and the "hows" behind accomplishing their plans.

I think there will certainly be people who stay home, because they are sick of the mudslinging and disinformation, and are disgusted with both candidates.

As for the write-in/3rd party votes: I think if we all voted for the best candidate, even if it meant a write-in/3rd party vote; the impact would be very significant. Sean 611 plans to vote 3rd party, as he noted in his post. I respect that decision. I think it is a brave one. My hesitation lies in considering whether these votes would help/hurt Romney or Obama. From time to time we hear analysis and speculation regarding the impact for Romney and Obama.

As I said in my last post: The reality is when the intellectual aspect of weighing the issues is exhausted, and neither candidate is acceptable; emotions enter the equation and often break the tie. So, both parties need to think before they speak.

Many politicians suffer from a serious case of foot-in-mouth disease. This year the foot-in-mouth award goes to Republicans and their comments on rape.

 

[Anna Scott]

You opened the door to that topic when you began to focus on the 47 % gaffe.

SolomonVII,

The title of this thread is: Republicans' appalling comments can tip the scale for undecided voters-IMHO.


If you go back and read my OP; you will see that Republicans' rape comments and Romney's 47% "gaffe," are the topic of this thread, along with discussing how these comments can tip the scales for an undecided voter.

There's plenty of material to work with on the Democrat side. A thread could be started to discuss offensive comments made by Democrats that tip the scales in favor of Republicans.

Anna

 

[SolomonVII]

SolomonVII,

The title of this thread is: Republicans' appalling comments can tip the scale for undecided voters-IMHO.


If you go back and read my OP; you will see that Republicans' rape comments and Romney's 47% "gaffe," are the topic of this thread, along with discussing how these comments can tip the scales for an undecided voter.

There's plenty of material to work with on the Democrat side. A thread could be started to discuss offensive comments made by Democrats that tip the scales in favor of Republicans.

Anna

You are right. It was a real dogs breakfast, and I did not notice that Romney's gaffe was also included at the end.
Which is to say, that you opened that door right from the very beginning.

It is fair play to balance out the gaffes from either side here too, to make people participating here note that it is not all one sided when it comes to putting ones foot in the mouth.

 

[DrkSdBls]

It is fair play to balance out the gaffes from either side here too, to make people participating here note that it is not all one sided when it comes to putting ones foot in the mouth.

Well then, here's a Fun little game for you to play. Why not start Listing all the totally Insane and/or Absurd things that the "Other side" has said.

 

[Anna Scott]

You are right. It was a real dogs breakfast, and I did not notice that Romney's gaffe was also included at the end.
Which is to say, that you opened that door right from the very beginning.

It is fair play to balance out the gaffes from either side here too, to make people participating here note that it is not all one sided when it comes to putting ones foot in the mouth.

SolomonVII,
I agree that in the larger picture of this election, statements and "gaffes" from both sides should be considered.

However, I think there are times when there is great value in separating the discussions. I'm asking for that separation in this thread.

In my OP, most of the quotes were about rape. I've tried to let people know what these kinds of comments do and how they affect rape survivors.

If you look back through this thread, very few people even addressed the rape comments. Instead, most people have ignored the issue entirely, or they have thrown out the short comings of Democrats (and there are many.) One poster even said it's all propaganda.

Posters are more comfortable discussing Romney's 47% gaffe. That's understandable.

As a rape survivor, I want to let people know how appalling these rape comments really are, how they affect and demean women, and how they can tip the scales for undecided voters.

Look at what Mourdock said:

‘‘I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God. And, I think, even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.’’
Boston Globe: US Senate candidate Richard Mourdock stands by comment that pregnancy from rape ‘something God intended’


If God intended the rape victim to become pregnant, God would also have to intend for the rape to happen. You can't separate the two. Without the rape, there would be no pregnancy. The pregnancy could not happen with out the rape.

Speaking for God is a serious issue. Would God specifically guide the rapist's sperm to make sure the egg of the rape victim was fertilized, because God "intended" for the victim to become pregnant?

Romney/Ryan still support Mourdock, but not his comment.

God is the author and creator of all life. God created us in such a way that pregnancy occurs through intercourse. However, I think it is a serious theological stretch to say God "intends" for a rape victim to become pregnant. You can't separate the rape from the pregnancy.

That's all for now.
Anna

 

[GNJ]

It actually terrifies me that a party with members who say stupid crap like this all the time could potentially be running the country.

 

[churchclap]

As a rape survivor myself, I can't stand how the most tragic thing to happen to a human being other than murder is being thrown around for political gain or political attacks. And that some extreme right-wingers actually hold those views.

 

[SPB1987]

Lame. Romney already said he didn't agree with that. One man does not make the GOP. Is Obama really in that much trouble?

I think your missing the point. Republicans making these ridiculous comments make Romney and Ryan look bad regardless of Romney or Ryan's stance on these issues.

 

[SPB1987]

The drone attacks are one reason I can't support Obama either. The only vote that makes sense for me is 3rd party. So I have to think about either writing in Jill Stein or voting for Gary Johnson.

I am considering Johnson as well. I do however generally support Obamacare which Johnson opposes. Either way...I think he might actually be a better choice than Obama or Romney.