Repost: Please help!

[Wpbch]

Wanted to maintain my anonymity by reposting this on a separate account (trying to delete the other acct because it has my personal info which I’m unable to remove at the moment). Anyways, here it is:

I want to become a born again Christian and I figure the best way for me to do is by reading the Bible thoroughly from start to finish. Kind of like what the Bible says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith.


I recently bought a copy of Ray Comforts Evidence Bible because I watched some of his videos online, and was honestly captivated and moved by the conviction he showed in his open air preaching.


I’ve since been reading the first 4 chapters of Genesis but I’ve come up with a few questions that I can’t seem to answer on my own. Would anyone be willing to answer them?


1) Since God is omnipotent, didn’t God know that Adam and Eve would sin?


2) Why did He put the tree of knowledge of good and evil there in the first place? Was it so that His creation could have the free will to choose to obey Him or not and love Him in the truest, most genuine sense? (Let love be genuine and kind)


3) Did God put it there to test the goodness of His first creation? To see if they would continue abiding in His goodness or choose to disobey God? If so, Was the tree just an arbitrary tree then in the sense that it didn’t matter what specific tree it was, so long as they didn’t disobey God’s direct commandment not to eat of that (perhaps arbitrary?) tree?


4) Was the tree therefore a symbolic representation of disobeying or opposing God? A representation of sin or evil, being exact the opposite of God Who is Good? If so then the tree wouldn’t have at all made them “like God” like the serpent was saying in making them have all the “knowledge” in the world. It would only make them learn the consequences of their sin and separation from God. Right?


5) Revelation says that there will be a new heaven on earth after Jesus and the day of Judgement comes. Is heaven not some kind of transcendent place that we “go up to” to be reunited with God? Or is it just a physical place like the old garden of eden except new? Is it just a new eden/earth? If so, then does God ever reveal how or if he’ll make sure another scenario like Adam and Eve sinning won’t happen again?


6) Is Satan not quarantined in hell like every sinner is since he is a fallen angel? How did he get into the garden of eden? Did God make hell AFTER sin was created and Satan/the serpent led them to sin? Or was hell always there?


Thanks!

 

[musicalpilgrim]

Wanted to maintain my anonymity by reposting this on a separate account (trying to delete the other acct because it has my personal info which I’m unable to remove at the moment). Anyways, here it is:

I want to become a born again Christian and I figure the best way for me to do is by reading the Bible thoroughly from start to finish. Kind of like what the Bible says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith.


I recently bought a copy of Ray Comforts Evidence Bible because I watched some of his videos online, and was honestly captivated and moved by the conviction he showed in his open air preaching.


I’ve since been reading the first 4 chapters of Genesis but I’ve come up with a few questions that I can’t seem to answer on my own. Would anyone be willing to answer them?


1) Since God is omnipotent, didn’t God know that Adam and Eve would sin?


2) Why did He put the tree of knowledge of good and evil there in the first place? Was it so that His creation could have the free will to choose to obey Him or not and love Him in the truest, most genuine sense? (Let love be genuine and kind)


3) Did God put it there to test the goodness of His first creation? To see if they would continue abiding in His goodness or choose to disobey God? If so, Was the tree just an arbitrary tree then in the sense that it didn’t matter what specific tree it was, so long as they didn’t disobey God’s direct commandment not to eat of that (perhaps arbitrary?) tree?


4) Was the tree therefore a symbolic representation of disobeying or opposing God? A representation of sin or evil, being exact the opposite of God Who is Good? If so then the tree wouldn’t have at all made them “like God” like the serpent was saying in making them have all the “knowledge” in the world. It would only make them learn the consequences of their sin and separation from God. Right?


5) Revelation says that there will be a new heaven on earth after Jesus and the day of Judgement comes. Is heaven not some kind of transcendent place that we “go up to” to be reunited with God? Or is it just a physical place like the old garden of eden except new? Is it just a new eden/earth? If so, then does God ever reveal how or if he’ll make sure another scenario like Adam and Eve sinning won’t happen again?


6) Is Satan not quarantined in hell like every sinner is since he is a fallen angel? How did he get into the garden of eden? Did God make hell AFTER sin was created and Satan/the serpent led them to sin? Or was hell always there?


Thanks!

Hi, if you want to become a born again Christian you need to start with Jesus Christ. Read a Gospel account of his life, read the Gospel of John and the carry on through Acts. It Is so exciting .
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son so that all who believe in him will not perish but have everlasting life.
There you have it God loves you so much.

 

[Ricky M]

Wanted to maintain my anonymity by reposting this on a separate account (trying to delete the other acct because it has my personal info which I’m unable to remove at the moment). Anyways, here it is:

I want to become a born again Christian and I figure the best way for me to do is by reading the Bible thoroughly from start to finish. Kind of like what the Bible says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith.


I recently bought a copy of Ray Comforts Evidence Bible because I watched some of his videos online, and was honestly captivated and moved by the conviction he showed in his open air preaching.


I’ve since been reading the first 4 chapters of Genesis but I’ve come up with a few questions that I can’t seem to answer on my own. Would anyone be willing to answer them?


1) Since God is omnipotent, didn’t God know that Adam and Eve would sin?


2) Why did He put the tree of knowledge of good and evil there in the first place? Was it so that His creation could have the free will to choose to obey Him or not and love Him in the truest, most genuine sense? (Let love be genuine and kind)


3) Did God put it there to test the goodness of His first creation? To see if they would continue abiding in His goodness or choose to disobey God? If so, Was the tree just an arbitrary tree then in the sense that it didn’t matter what specific tree it was, so long as they didn’t disobey God’s direct commandment not to eat of that (perhaps arbitrary?) tree?


4) Was the tree therefore a symbolic representation of disobeying or opposing God? A representation of sin or evil, being exact the opposite of God Who is Good? If so then the tree wouldn’t have at all made them “like God” like the serpent was saying in making them have all the “knowledge” in the world. It would only make them learn the consequences of their sin and separation from God. Right?


5) Revelation says that there will be a new heaven on earth after Jesus and the day of Judgement comes. Is heaven not some kind of transcendent place that we “go up to” to be reunited with God? Or is it just a physical place like the old garden of eden except new? Is it just a new eden/earth? If so, then does God ever reveal how or if he’ll make sure another scenario like Adam and Eve sinning won’t happen again?


6) Is Satan not quarantined in hell like every sinner is since he is a fallen angel? How did he get into the garden of eden? Did God make hell AFTER sin was created and Satan/the serpent led them to sin? Or was hell always there?


Thanks!

The only way God could know our love for Him is real, is by giving us the ability to not love Him

 

[Amittai]

1-4: yes

5: There will be a new heavens and a new earth AND being in His presence is also heaven.

 

[com7fy8]

1) Since God is omnipotent, didn’t God know that Adam and Eve would sin?

He knew; before the universe was made, He already planned to have Jesus come to this earth and die for our sins. One scripture I go by, in saying this, is a quote of what James says, in Acts 15 >

"'Known to God from eternity are all His works.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Acts 15:18)

He knew He would raise His Son on the third day, from the dead. And if He knew He would raise Jesus from the dead, He knew His own Son Jesus was going to die . . . and why >

Jesus died for our sins.

So, I understand, therefore, that God knew Adam and Eve would sin so it would be necessary that Jesus died for us.

 

[com7fy8]

2) Why did He put the tree of knowledge of good and evil there in the first place?

First . . . yes . . . God did create the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, in the Garden of Eden. I know you didn't ask if He did, but He did

Now, I will offer you something > not all who claim the Bible have the same understanding and ideas about this. So, I will consider myself to be offering here, and others are welcome to disagree or supplement and improve on what I may offer.

God made the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. So, it was a good tree. Because God is good, and God does no evil > in James 1:13 we have >

"God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone."

And Jesus says,

"No one is good but One, that is, God."
. . . .(in Matthew 19:17, and in Mark 10:18, and also in Luke 18:19)

So, then, I would have to think that there is a good reason why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden. I guess it was simply a good thing to make . . . beautiful, among other things, and able to produce what is good, from its fruit. There are many marvelous things God has created, though they might not have an obvious benefit for us humans. Because God is creative.

And He made all things, actually, for His Son Jesus, right?

"All things were created through Him and for Him."
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (in Colossians 1:16)

I understand this means that our Father so loved His Son, before creation, that our Father made all things as an expression of how greatly and dearly He loves His Son Jesus. So, this reason would cover why He made the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. He made it for His Son, though Jesus already had all knowledge that He could have, by the way. So, yes we can see a lesson from this > how love can do more than is necessary by welfare-system standards. Yes, there can be a love lesson to get from this, then.

But surely we always can learn more, from God's word. So, what else might be a reason God made the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Was it so that His creation could have the free will to choose to obey Him or not and love Him in the truest, most genuine sense? (Let love be genuine and kind)

This is what a number of Bible claiming people understand; and I think you might have improved on how others maybe have explained this to you.

In any case, God does desire that we love Him truly. But loving Him truly is not only a matter of freely choosing to do so. We need to have the right motivation . . . not only trying to use God > and not loving Him in some a way so we are caring only or mainly about our own selves.

There are people who fall in love with those they want to use!!

But God is all-loving, and Jesus desires for us also to be all-loving, including caring about others as we care about ourselves > Jesus Himself does say >

"for if you love those who love you, what reward have you?"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(in Matthew 5:46)

Yes, we are individuals who make choices and are each accountable, but Christianity includes the Trinity's way of family caring and sharing. We can see, right in the "Our Father" prayer how prayer is about "we", "us", and "our". But I suspect a number of people are depending on what they can get their own wills to do, versus depending on how God in us shares with us and has us willing and doing His good pleasure > Philippians 2:13. In any case, we are family, in Jesus.

But ones more independent can be very interested in what they know, right? Because they depend on knowing things so they can accomplish what they want to do. But, then, the LORD could have meant, among other things, that Adam and Eve did not need to feed on knowledge of good and evil. Instead, they could share with the LORD knows so much more and better than just knowing good and evil; they could have personal relating and sharing with God, while benefitting from His knowledge; but how much personal and tender sharing might you get while getting knowledge from a tree??

So, that tree might have been nice to look at, and it could have been capable of some sort of benefit from its fruit, but God had so much more for them.

Maybe it is like how God has made some very extravagantly beautiful women, but He also says to us guys, don't let that get to you; there is so much more to beauty than what you can see >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

Don't feed on that outward creation beauty, then.

So, possibly He meant, by saying not to eat that fruit > it is good creation, but don't feed on that . . . like how we are told not to feed on how women can be outwardly beautiful.

Even so > there are things to enjoy > God "gives us richly all things to enjoy," we do have in 1 Timothy 6:17; however, we need to feed on Jesus, not on what we can know and see. We can enjoy a beautiful tree and beautiful women, and other good things of God's creation, but enjoying is not the same as feeding on and depending on something.

So, then, might this shed some light on why God said not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? Perhaps, He is saying you don't need to depend on that; because You have Me to personally share with you so much more than you could get from that tree.

So, among other reasons, possibly He put it there as an object lesson of what they did not need.

Plus, yes He could have been testing them, also. But I think it is fine for God to make beautiful and wonderful things, though they are not needed > for example, there are many very beautiful women, though this is not necessary for someone who knows how to love in God's way; so yes God has made women beautiful, but He could be saying, don't make a big thing out of that, since it isn't really needed for genuine loving.

Likewise, I don't think the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was necessary for genuine loving. After all, Jesus and our Father had the best possible love, long before there was that tree and beautiful women and other nice things of God's creation.

Another thing > Jesus Himself is perfectly incapable of choosing to sin. And Jesus has a will more free than our human wills are. And Jesus is quite capable of loving genuinely and kindly. So, no, humans do not need to have the ability to choose to sin, in order to genuinely love God, I would say. So, I can see that God did not put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden, for that reason.

But we need how God is able to change us so we are loving genuinely.

 

[Wpbch]

Deleted

 

[Wpbch]

First . . . yes . . . God did create the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, in the Garden of Eden. I know you didn't ask if He did, but He did

Now, I will offer you something > not all who claim the Bible have the same understanding and ideas about this. So, I will consider myself to be offering here, and others are welcome to disagree or supplement and improve on what I may offer.

God made the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. So, it was a good tree. Because God is good, and God does no evil > in James 1:13 we have >

"God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone."

And Jesus says,

"No one is good but One, that is, God."
. . . .(in Matthew 19:17, and in Mark 10:18, and also in Luke 18:19)

So, then, I would have to think that there is a good reason why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden. I guess it was simply a good thing to make . . . beautiful, among other things, and able to produce what is good, from its fruit. There are many marvelous things God has created, though they might not have an obvious benefit for us humans. Because God is creative.

And He made all things, actually, for His Son Jesus, right?

"All things were created through Him and for Him."
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (in Colossians 1:16)

I understand this means that our Father so loved His Son, before creation, that our Father made all things as an expression of how greatly and dearly He loves His Son Jesus. So, this reason would cover why He made the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. He made it for His Son, though Jesus already had all knowledge that He could have, by the way. So, yes we can see a lesson from this > how love can do more than is necessary by welfare-system standards. Yes, there can be a love lesson to get from this, then.

But surely we always can learn more, from God's word. So, what else might be a reason God made the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

This is what a number of Bible claiming people understand; and I think you might have improved on how others maybe have explained this to you.

In any case, God does desire that we love Him truly. But loving Him truly is not only a matter of freely choosing to do so. We need to have the right motivation . . . not only trying to use God > and not loving Him in some a way so we are caring only or mainly about our own selves.

There are people who fall in love with those they want to use!!

But God is all-loving, and Jesus desires for us also to be all-loving, including caring about others as we care about ourselves > Jesus Himself does say >

"for if you love those who love you, what reward have you?"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(in Matthew 5:46)

Yes, we are individuals who make choices and are each accountable, but Christianity includes the Trinity's way of family caring and sharing. We can see, right in the "Our Father" prayer how prayer is about "we", "us", and "our". But I suspect a number of people are depending on what they can get their own wills to do, versus depending on how God in us shares with us and has us willing and doing His good pleasure > Philippians 2:13. In any case, we are family, in Jesus.

But ones more independent can be very interested in what they know, right? Because they depend on knowing things so they can accomplish what they want to do. But, then, the LORD could have meant, among other things, that Adam and Eve did not need to feed on knowledge of good and evil. Instead, they could share with the LORD knows so much more and better than just knowing good and evil; they could have personal relating and sharing with God, while benefitting from His knowledge; but how much personal and tender sharing might you get while getting knowledge from a tree??

So, that tree might have been nice to look at, and it could have been capable of some sort of benefit from its fruit, but God had so much more for them.

Maybe it is like how God has made some very extravagantly beautiful women, but He also says to us guys, don't let that get to you; there is so much more to beauty than what you can see >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

Don't feed on that outward creation beauty, then.

So, possibly He meant, by saying not to eat that fruit > it is good creation, but don't feed on that . . . like how we are told not to feed on how women can be outwardly beautiful.

Even so > there are things to enjoy > God "gives us richly all things to enjoy," we do have in 1 Timothy 6:17; however, we need to feed on Jesus, not on what we can know and see. We can enjoy a beautiful tree and beautiful women, and other good things of God's creation, but enjoying is not the same as feeding on and depending on something.

So, then, might this shed some light on why God said not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? Perhaps, He is saying you don't need to depend on that; because You have Me to personally share with you so much more than you could get from that tree.

So, among other reasons, possibly He put it there as an object lesson of what they did not need.

Plus, yes He could have been testing them, also. But I think it is fine for God to make beautiful and wonderful things, though they are not needed > for example, there are many very beautiful women, though this is not necessary for someone who knows how to love in God's way; so yes God has made women beautiful, but He could be saying, don't make a big thing out of that, since it isn't really needed for genuine loving.

Likewise, I don't think the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was necessary for genuine loving. After all, Jesus and our Father had the best possible love, long before there was that tree and beautiful women and other nice things of God's creation.

Another thing > Jesus Himself is perfectly incapable of choosing to sin. And Jesus has a will more free than our human wills are. And Jesus is quite capable of loving genuinely and kindly. So, no, humans do not need to have the ability to choose to sin, in order to genuinely love God, I would say. So, I can see that God did not put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden, for that reason.

But we need how God is able to change us so we are loving genuinely.

Very interesting! I wouldn’t have thought of it that way.

So “God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone." (James 1:13) Though the tree of knowledge of good and evil was forbidden to be eaten by Adam and Eve, the tree itself didn’t represent “evil” per se, but it was good(?) like all other things in the garden since it was created by God, and most importantly, it wasn’t meant to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God, but rather to allow them to exercise their freedom of choice - to love God truly - and to learn how to depend on God and God alone for sustainment and nourishment. Kinda like what Jesus said in the New Testament when He was tempted by Satan “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4)

Regardless of the trees outward beauty and the fact that “the tree was good for food” and “was pleasant to the eyes,” had Eve simply chosen to ignore the serpents temptation and turn to God instead and everything He had provided them in the garden, including His presence, it would have revealed the true love they had for God and strengthen their connection to Him, rather than sever it.

So the tree highlighted the importance of having our trust and reliance be on God and God alone as He has so much to offer to us and more.

Am I getting what you’re saying?

 

[com7fy8]

3) Did God put it there to test the goodness of His first creation? To see if they would continue abiding in His goodness or choose to disobey God?

I would say that could be one of His reasons.

But, of course, God already knew the outcome.

I think Adam and Eve could be an object lesson for us. They were God's perfect creation, in His own image . . . I would say as much as a created being could be.

And, even though they were so perfect, they were capable of falling to Satan. Therefore, I can see how humble we need to be, to trust and fully depend on God.

Also . . . by the way, God's word says it is God's intention for Jesus, "that in all things He may have the preeminence" > please see Colossians 1:18. From this, I consider that all along it was God's intention how Jesus His own Son would be the first on this earth, to be truly perfect and not sin.

Was the tree just an arbitrary tree then in the sense that it didn’t matter what specific tree it was, so long as they didn’t disobey God’s direct commandment not to eat of that (perhaps arbitrary?) tree?

Yeah, I guess He could have had some other tree for testing Adam and Eve. But may be the object lesson I have offered in Post #6

But ones more independent can be very interested in what they know, right? Because they depend on knowing things so they can accomplish what they want to do. But, then, the LORD could have meant, among other things, that Adam and Eve did not need to feed on knowledge of good and evil. Instead, they could share with the LORD knows so much more and better than just knowing good and evil; they could have personal relating and sharing with God, while benefitting from His knowledge; but how much personal and tender sharing might you get while getting knowledge from a tree??

I suppose this can be part of why it was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

And I now think of how our Apostle Paul says >

"Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies."
. . . . . . . .(in 1 Corinthians 8:1)

God knows how knowledge of good and evil can be a pride problem. This certainly goes for me. With what I suppose I know about someone being wrong, I can welcome this as an excuse to self-righteously look down on the person . . . instead of first having compassion in prayer with hope for the person.

But love "hopes all things," we have in 1 Corinthians 13:7.

And even though Jesus is so superior to us, and knows all about us, Jesus is not at all conceited against us; but Jesus left Heaven itself, in order to reach us and suffer and die for us like He did, so He may share eternity with us in our Father's own love > John 17:23.

So, I can see how God could have been testing Adam and Eve, with the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but the tree was multitasking also to show we need to not depend on just what we suppose we know about good and evil.

And do not allow knowledge about people to control how we are and what we do.

 

[com7fy8]

it wasn’t meant to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God, but rather to allow them to exercise their freedom of choice - to love God truly - and to learn how to depend on God and God alone for sustainment and nourishment.

Am I getting what you’re saying?

You are clear that I do not mean it was provided, in order to tempt them.

But I think that making a choice out of one's free will is not necessarily a measure of love. But ones do understand this is very important, and plenty of people emphasize this.

But, like I offered, Jesus has no ability to sin; yet, Jesus perfectly loves our Father.

And > another item > Adam and Eve in their free wills were as good and perfect as created humans can be in their own character, i.e., without God effecting our character > in my opinion. And they did not choose to obey God!! So, unless we as humans have been somehow superior to Adam and Eve who started off perfect, who of us could do any better?

I grew up, so much worse, I would say, than how Adam and Eve were when they were first created. No way was I going to choose God, the way I was. So, yeah, I had a will, but my character effected what I was capable of doing > Romans 6:17 says we in Jesus have been "slaves of sin" > I do not think a slave of sin has a will that is free to choose to love. By the way, our Apostle Paul does say that "when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness." (in Romans 6:20 ) So, from this I understand that we in our wills were not free while we were in sin. This, by the way, is subject to what has been an ungoing debate > between free will people and predestination people and ones who believe in both . . . and these Bible-claiming people. Possibly, you know this

Ones into free will might argue that the phrase "slaves of sin" is not in all translations, but there are Bibles which do say "servants of sin" . . . by the way > examples of this are in Romans 6:17&20.

But it is true, I trust, how true love is not forced, and our Father has been kind and gentle with us. And this is an emphasis of ones who feel strongly that Adam and Eve needed to have free wills in order to truly love God, and not be puppets or slaves. But Jesus God's own Son is not a puppet, to say the least, though He can not choose to sin.

Again > I would emphasize how we need to have right motives, and have the character of Jesus in us so we are loving God more and more maturely like Jesus does . . . and this including how we become more and more pleasing to God the way Jesus in us makes us pleasing . . . so we are sweetly pleasing to Him while loving any and all people > like Jesus so loved, on Calvary > and this is our example >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

My opinion is that even if someone chooses to trust in Jesus and this is the way God wants, still the person needs correction so he or she becomes and loves the way our Father desires > Hebrews 12:4-14 says we all are getting our Father's correction. To me, this means that even if we choose to love God, still we will need more and more correction, "of which all have become partakers".