Replacement theology

[yeshuasavedme]

Ok,

Say the rapture happens--Jesus gathers up all christian, dead and alive, and changes them and takes them to heaven.

who's left on the earth?

non-christians, right

So the angels come and do the harvest(separating the wheat from the tares)----but, wouldn't the fact that there are no christians left on earth negate that? Isn't that what the harvest is?


how do people get saved if the Holy Spirit is to be taken out of the way(I've heard people say the rapture HAS to occur for this reason) Isn't it the work of the Holy Spirit that saves?

I'm throwing things out off the top of my head here....Sorry if they don't make sense, and if I'm really messing things up tell me.

Yeshuasavedme,

you mention those left on earth for the thousand years, and you mention the angels coming to do the harvest(wheat/tares) during the 7 year tribulation(I think that's when you said it would happen)---how does that work?

I'm glad you asked too!
The Gentile Church is taken just as Enoch was; but only those who are truly walking with the LORD, as Enoch was, will be taken.
Sad to say, but much of the professing Church is not walking with the LORD but with the world.

You cannot tell the difference from the Church and the world by the lives they live or what comes out of their mouths or what they give their time to, or their personal testimony; for who knows and meditates and lives the Word of God? -not so many: every commandment is broken by the movies that they watch, and one cannot fellowship with devils and the LORD at the same time. We are not 'under the law' as Israel was, which was types and shadows, but the law is 'in the heart' of every Believer when they are truly born again, and what is in the heart comes out of the mouth.



many who profess to be Christians have never truly been born again and begun their walk with the LORD; so don't expect masses of the professing Church to be taken.

I believe that the two eyewitnesses, Elijah and Moses, appear in the streets of Jerusalem immediately and begin preaching Jesus Christ and Him crucified -as the eyewitnesses that they are, since the mount of transfiguration- to the nation of Israel.

The final AC is revealed about as soon as they begin preaching, for there is always a man being groomed for the position -IMO- by the evil one, as the spirit of AC has been in the world from New Testament times; but the final man of sin cannot be revealed until the 'restrainer' is 'taken out of the way'.

The true Church that is cleansed and prays is the temple of God on earth, since the day of Pentecost.

When the Church is gone, the indwelling Presence of glory will be gone, and the Holy Spirit, Himself will still be here, just as He has always been and will be, but the Presence of his glory indwelling who came to dwell in the temple of Jerusalem, left it in Ezekiel 11, and later came to dwell in the temple of the born again redeemed souls on Pentecost will be gone.



The entire world will not be much different from what it is now, except the birth pangs of the earth, for the deliverance, will become more marked than ever as the first seven years of the Day of the LORD begin to draw on.

Who will notice that there are those who truly walked with the LORD and that they are gone? -in our western nations, anyway.

Babies and children who have not come to the age of accountability who are of unbelievers will not be gone, for they are not 'clean' as those are who have at least one believing parent. -So how many will be gone and who will notice, anyway?

We'll be a little blurb on web logs, and the world will go on as it is, but the two eyewitnesses in Jerusalem who preach in sackcloth will turn the hearts of many back to the 'fathers' -of the nation of Israel, and not of the western, ‘Grecian’ church, BTW.


Churches will be almost as full as they are now -IMO- for only those who are living lives of holiness -not legalism, but true holiness- will be taken.

So who'll be left? -much of the world. Just as it was in the days of Noah.

But unbelieving Israel will have their hearts convicted and many will come to the LORD under hard times. At the mid trib, the two eyewitnesses are killed and resurrected, the final AC places his image that speaks in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and demands to be worshipped on the mount that the LORD has chosen to rule the earth from. Those who come to believe in Jesus in Jerusalem flee the AC so as not to be killed for not worshipping him and are fed and cared for in the wilderness; but there are Jews all over the world, still, who will not be in Jerusalem -until they are gathered by angels at the end of the seven years, and brought back to the wilderness, themselves, as Ezekiel 20:33-44 shows us.

During the seven years the judgment of God upon an unbelieving world is severe, and during the last half of the seven years the wrath of God is poured out upon the kingdom of the beast without restraint, and one third of mankind dies through the plagues, pestilences, wars, famines, and persecutions by the time the end comes.

When the LORD gathers the entire population of Jews back to the wilderness, I think that only one tenth of them survive from that gathered bunch, to enter the millennial reign.

But just before the gathering of the Jews from all the world, the armies of the AC were/will be destroyed, and there were/will be at least 200 million of them +, who gather/ed to surround Jerusalem and are destroyed by the LORD at His coming.


After all that, the goats are gathered and sent into the lake of fire -without needing resurrected bodies, for they never leave their bodies, at His return.

So: those who are the ‘Blessed of the LORD’ and enter into the kingdom of God on earth are few and precious -but still, many times more than the 8 souls who came off the Ark and populated the earth after the flood.

There will be a great population explosion during the reign of Peace, and many souls will become born again, who are born then -Israel will be the nation that teaches about the Person and work of the Firstborn, who will rule in Person, in glory, over all the earth. Ezekiel chapters 40 on, show the role of Israel in the thousand years.


Remember: Only 8 came off the ark, many, many more will enter the kingdom on earth to populate it for the thousand years.

 

[Imblessed]

I'm glad you asked too!
The Gentile Church is taken just as Enoch was; but only those who are truly walking with the LORD, as Enoch was, will be taken.
Sad to say, but much of the professing Church is not walking with the LORD but with the world.

You cannot tell the difference from the Church and the world by the lives they live or what comes out of their mouths or what they give their time to, or their personal testimony; for who knows and meditates and lives the Word of God? -not so many: every commandment is broken by the movies that they watch, and one cannot fellowship with devils and the LORD at the same time. We are not 'under the law' as Israel was, which was types and shadows, but the law is 'in the heart' of every Believer when they are truly born again, and what is in the heart comes out of the mouth.



many who profess to be Christians have never truly been born again and begun their walk with the LORD; so don't expect masses of the professing Church to be taken.

I believe that the two eyewitnesses, Elijah and Moses, appear in the streets of Jerusalem immediately and begin preaching Jesus Christ and Him crucified -as the eyewitnesses that they are, since the mount of transfiguration- to the nation of Israel.

The final AC is revealed about as soon as they begin preaching, for there is always a man being groomed for the position -IMO- by the evil one, as the spirit of AC has been in the world from New Testament times; but the final man of sin cannot be revealed until the 'restrainer' is 'taken out of the way'.

The true Church that is cleansed and prays is the temple of God on earth, since the day of Pentecost.

When the Church is gone, the indwelling Presence of glory will be gone, and the Holy Spirit, Himself will still be here, just as He has always been and will be, but the Presence of his glory indwelling who came to dwell in the temple of Jerusalem, left it in Ezekiel 11, and later came to dwell in the temple of the born again redeemed souls on Pentecost will be gone.



The entire world will not be much different from what it is now, except the birth pangs of the earth, for the deliverance, will become more marked than ever as the first seven years of the Day of the LORD begin to draw on.

Who will notice that there are those who truly walked with the LORD and that they are gone? -in our western nations, anyway.

Babies and children who have not come to the age of accountability who are of unbelievers will not be gone, for they are not 'clean' as those are who have at least one believing parent. -So how many will be gone and who will notice, anyway?

We'll be a little blurb on web logs, and the world will go on as it is, but the two eyewitnesses in Jerusalem who preach in sackcloth will turn the hearts of many back to the 'fathers' -of the nation of Israel, and not of the western, ‘Grecian’ church, BTW.


Churches will be almost as full as they are now -IMO- for only those who are living lives of holiness -not legalism, but true holiness- will be taken.

So who'll be left? -much of the world. Just as it was in the days of Noah.

But unbelieving Israel will have their hearts convicted and many will come to the LORD under hard times. At the mid trib, the two eyewitnesses are killed and resurrected, the final AC places his image that speaks in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and demands to be worshipped on the mount that the LORD has chosen to rule the earth from. Those who come to believe in Jesus in Jerusalem flee the AC so as not to be killed for not worshipping him and are fed and cared for in the wilderness; but there are Jews all over the world, still, who will not be in Jerusalem -until they are gathered by angels at the end of the seven years, and brought back to the wilderness, themselves, as Ezekiel 20:33-44 shows us.

During the seven years the judgment of God upon an unbelieving world is severe, and during the last half of the seven years the wrath of God is poured out upon the kingdom of the beast without restraint, and one third of mankind dies through the plagues, pestilences, wars, famines, and persecutions by the time the end comes.

When the LORD gathers the entire population of Jews back to the wilderness, I think that only one tenth of them survive from that gathered bunch, to enter the millennial reign.

But just before the gathering of the Jews from all the world, the armies of the AC were/will be destroyed, and there were/will be at least 200 million of them +, who gather/ed to surround Jerusalem and are destroyed by the LORD at His coming.


After all that, the goats are gathered and sent into the lake of fire -without needing resurrected bodies, for they never leave their bodies, at His return.

So: those who are the ‘Blessed of the LORD’ and enter into the kingdom of God on earth are few and precious -but still, many times more than the 8 souls who came off the Ark and populated the earth after the flood.

There will be a great population explosion during the reign of Peace, and many souls will become born again, who are born then -Israel will be the nation that teaches about the Person and work of the Firstborn, who will rule in Person, in glory, over all the earth. Ezekiel chapters 40 on, show the role of Israel in the thousand years.


Remember: Only 8 came off the ark, many, many more will enter the kingdom on earth to populate it for the thousand years.

thank you. I think I have an idea of where you are coming from.....some of it makes alot of sense, other parts don't.

Do you consider yourself dispensational? Do you think that the temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices restored?

what you said about the rapture makes sense, althought I know that there would be many offended by your idea that not all "christians" will make it. I happen to agree that there are more "non-christians" in the church than christians, so perhaps the "world" would not notice so much since alot of the "christians" don't go? and not all the babies and children go, although that is another thing you'll get blasted on. <<< you are opening up a can of worms there!


"But unbelieving Israel will have their hearts convicted and many will come to the LORD under hard times."---you mean fleshly Israel? The Israel occupying the West banks?


"When the Church is gone, the indwelling Presence of glory will be gone, and the Holy Spirit, Himself will still be here, just as He has always been and will be, but the Presence of his glory indwelling who came to dwell in the temple of Jerusalem, left it in Ezekiel 11, and later came to dwell in the temple of the born again redeemed souls on Pentecost will be gone."-----I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here......forgive me for being obtuse.......

 

[yeshuasavedme]

thank you. I think I have an idea of where you are coming from.....some of it makes alot of sense, other parts don't.

Do you consider yourself dispensational? Do you think that the temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices restored?

what you said about the rapture makes sense, althought I know that there would be many offended by your idea that not all "christians" will make it. I happen to agree that there are more "non-christians" in the church than christians, so perhaps the "world" would not notice so much since alot of the "christians" don't go? and not all the babies and children go, although that is another thing you'll get blasted on. <<< you are opening up a can of worms there!


"But unbelieving Israel will have their hearts convicted and many will come to the LORD under hard times."---you mean fleshly Israel? The Israel occupying the West banks?


"When the Church is gone, the indwelling Presence of glory will be gone, and the Holy Spirit, Himself will still be here, just as He has always been and will be, but the Presence of his glory indwelling who came to dwell in the temple of Jerusalem, left it in Ezekiel 11, and later came to dwell in the temple of the born again redeemed souls on Pentecost will be gone."-----I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here......forgive me for being obtuse.......

Hello,
I was referring to the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Triune God being here during the great tribulation after the Church, within which His Presence of glory is indwelling since Pentecost, will be gone at the 'laqach' and the glory departed with it.

Though the glory of His indwelling Presence is gone with the Church, the Holy Spirit, third Person, is not gone and souls are saved as they always have been, by His adding them to the body of Christ by adoption.

Yes. Israel is His particular interest after the Gentile Church is taken out.
By the time He's through with them at the end of the seven years, every surviving one of them left on earth will be Redeemed and under the blood covenant. I'll come back with Scriptures later -gotta go. -Ezekiel 20:33-44

-I really believe every single baby born or murdered, and every single child -until they can understand right and wrong and choose wrong with understanding- is covered by the atonement in the blood offered once, for the cleansing of our being; but I do not believe that the LORD will take the children of the unredeemed persons in the 'laqach' for he is legal in his dealings with man, after all.
When a child dies, I do believe they are His if they have never come to know and do, with understanding, right or wrong. But before they die, they are under the care of the parents -for good or bad! -That is the only way I understand the fact that children of one Believing parent are 'clean' -for the taking in the 'laqach'; for Adam's transgression is totally put away by the once for all atonement and no one dies for Adam's sin, now, the second death.
I do believe Ezekiel's temple will be built by the Returned LORD and the Feasts kept as His memorials for the thousand years: No Ark: but the LORD will set His throne in the Holy of Holies -Ezekiel 43:1-7; and no veil since at Jesus' death the LORD split the veil of separation that was a sign of the first death; and therefore no Day of Atonement sacrifice, for that has been accepted once, for all, when Jesus was our Mercy Seat and the veil split.
The old order is gone forever, and Jesus will reign as King and High Priest, both, as Firstborn, over all the earth.
Be back-
In Him,
~

 

[ShirleyFord]

the Blessed of the LORD who go into the millennial reign are not regenerated in body though adopted in spirit, and they die and their children die, and many die during those thousand years, for physical death is not ended until the thousand years are ended and the heavens and the earth are regenerated and death and hell are cast into the lake of fire.

those Blessed of the LORD will be resurrected at the end of the thousand years, also, and be regenerated in body, also, and glorified, also -and then, the New Jerusalem will be completed and come down from God out of heaven to dwell upon the regenerated earth.

Hi yeshuasavedme,


If the first resurrection is supposed to be the physical resurrection of believers at the Second Advent, and this is consequently the actual means by which one escapes the second death, how can people be saved (and consequently avoid the second death) in a supposed future millennium?

Just wondering.

Shirley

 

[Arc]

Hello everyone

On several posts concerning eschatology I have seen those who say Israel and the Church are two different and distinct entities... I used to believe that to be the case but I no longer hold to that understanding.
Respectfully
Mark G.

I agree, the Church is not seperate from Israel. The believing Jews and believing Gentiles constitute the Church which is just another name for those who belong to the Messiah.

The Church is the Messianic reign of Jesus. And all nations are flowing into Him.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hi yeshuasavedme,


If the first resurrection is supposed to be the physical resurrection of believers at the Second Advent, and this is consequently the actual means by which one escapes the second death, how can people be saved (and consequently avoid the second death) in a supposed future millennium?

Just wondering.

Shirley

The second death is being cast into the lake of fire, which is called the outer darkness, where those cast there are in the blackness of darkness forever.
The second death is not the last resurrection, but the lake of fire, itself, and all who have thier part in that lake suffer the second death forever.

That those believers who entered the millennial reign of the last Day of earth as the Blessed of the LORD enter it as Believers who are not regenerated and who re-populate the earth, who die physically, but who have long lives, 'as the days of a tree', the LORD says; and whose children must also learn of the LORD and believe on Him to be born again in spirit and who also die but live long, is the teaching of the whole counsel of God.

All those billions of people who are born in the millennial reign =the Last Day of this earth =the thousand years of Sabbath Peace for this creation, who die will be resurrected at the end of the Last Day, also, along with all those of all the earth's history who were not resurrected in the first resurrection and all will stand to be judged.

There is no way that the last resurrection is the second death, for the lake of fire is the second death, itself; and in no way do those who have died in the 'Last Day' of earth's Sabbath millennium, who entered it as the Blessed of the LORD -and their children who were born again and died physically during it- will be given the second death in that resurrection, for they are Believers who are given eternal life, already, having come to the New birth in their lives.


That the lake of fire has received all the goats at the beginning of the Day of the LORD =at the end of the first seven years of it, who were cast into it alive, without bodily resurrection to stand before the LORD -for they did not die at His return in glory- and that the lake of fire received the beast and the false prophet alive, without dying, and without standing before the LORD for judgment, being cast there alive, as already judged when the LORD returns to this earth to reign; shows that not all are resurrected at the end of the Last Day of this present creation, too; for no one is resurrected from the lake of fire; and all 'in Adam' who are there already, at the end of the Last Day, are there in both body and soul and will not be brought forth from that second death.

 

[ShirleyFord]

The second death is being cast into the lake of fire, which is called the outer darkness, where those cast there are in the blackness of darkness forever.
The second death is not the last resurrection, but the lake of fire, itself, and all who have thier part in that lake suffer the second death forever.

That those believers who entered the millennial reign of the last Day of earth as the Blessed of the LORD enter it as Believers who are not regenerated and who re-populate the earth, who die physically, but who have long lives, 'as the days of a tree', the LORD says; and whose children must also learn of the LORD and believe on Him to be born again in spirit and who also die but live long, is the teaching of the whole counsel of God.

All those billions of people who are born in the millennial reign =the Last Day of this earth =the thousand years of Sabbath Peace for this creation, who die will be resurrected at the end of the Last Day, also, along with all those of all the earth's history who were not resurrected in the first resurrection and all will stand to be judged.

There is no way that the last resurrection is the second death, for the lake of fire is the second death, itself; and in no way do those who have died in the 'Last Day' of earth's Sabbath millennium, who entered it as the Blessed of the LORD -and their children who were born again and died physically during it- will be given the second death in that resurrection, for they are Believers who are given eternal life, already, having come to the New birth in their lives.


That the lake of fire has received all the goats at the beginning of the Day of the LORD =at the end of the first seven years of it, who were cast into it alive, without bodily resurrection to stand before the LORD -for they did not die at His return in glory- and that the lake of fire received the beast and the false prophet alive, without dying, and without standing before the LORD for judgment, being cast there alive, as already judged when the LORD returns to this earth to reign; shows that not all are resurrected at the end of the Last Day of this present creation, too; for no one is resurrected from the lake of fire; and all 'in Adam' who are there already, at the end of the Last Day, are there in both body and soul and will not be brought forth from that second death.

Not sure who you're responding to. You quoted me but I never said that the second resurrection was the second death. Have no idea where you're coming from. But just to joggle your memory, this is what I said in my last post:

Hi yeshuasavedme,


If the first resurrection is supposed to be the physical resurrection of believers at the Second Advent, and this is consequently the actual means by which one escapes the second death, how can people be saved (and consequently avoid the second death) in a supposed future millennium?

Just wondering.

Shirley

We find the second resurrection, the redemption of our bodies, at the Second Coming of Christ.

Revelations 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelations 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelations 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelations 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelations 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Shirley