ace of hearts
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- Nov 15, 2018
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What I see in your posts is an agenda Scripture won't support. Ephraim isn't mentioned in Jer 3:8.Concerning my comment that your responses are anachronistic you wrote,
Anthropology concerns the origins of people and it’s a simple fact that some people in our modern society are descendants of the ten northern tribes of Ephraim and some are not. Supersessionists can grumble all they want but this fact still stands. When the inerrancy of scripture is upheld, the Old Testament texts concerning the restoration of the elect of Ephraim pertain to the descendants of the ten northern tribes and those concerning the elect gentiles pertain to those who are not descendants of the ten tribes. Your comments make no such distinctions so they are anachronistic, anthropologically as well as scripturally.
But this is precisely why I wrote your comments are anachronistic; not all Israelites are Jews! Your perception implies Paul is merely speaking of “Jews” in Romans 9:24, which is a shallow perception in light of the fact he is addressing “who is true Israel among Israel,” in your own words. He is obviously employing hyperbole and means Israel; God has his elect, vessels of mercy, amongst the Israelites as well as the gentiles. Verses 25-26 cite Hosea 2:23 pertaining the descendants of Israel, the ten northern tribes, that are redeemed and then sown throughout the world, which carries over from the previous verse concerning Israel and the succeeding one from Isaiah 10:22. The context supports my perception and not yours and any notion that the “gentiles” were sown in the world to spread the gospel is anachronistic, anthropologically as well as scripturally. It’s not about anyone’s feelings, it’s about the truth.
In response to my comments upon discernment between fulfillment and consummation, you reiterated the common misapprehension that the apostles cite from the OT to indicate the fulfillment of OT texts pertaining to the establishment of the Davidic kingdom.
Again, supersessionism fails to grasp fulfillment in juxtapose with consummation. Some prophecies are intended to be protracted phenomena; fulfillment is for an extended period until the consummation. Revelation 11 affirms the kingdoms of the world do not become Christ’s to rule until the time arrives to judge the dead and to reward the saints. Consequently, texts such as Romans 15:12 cannot be truly interpreted as consummated but only begun, any more than Judah and Ephraim’s reconciliation in avowing Christ. Isaiah prophesied that Ephraim is only fully reconciled with Judah when Christ strikes the “earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked” (Isaiah 11:4), which substantiates the enmity ends with Christ’s return in Revelation 11. Isaiah 11 cannot be correctly interpreted as consummated at the first advent.
Concerning the enmity between Ephraim and Judah prophesied for the first advent in Zechariah 11:14 you wrote.
As I stated, supersessionists can grumble all they want but the fact still remains that some people in our modern society are descendants of the ten northern tribes of Ephraim and some are not. When the inerrancy of scripture is upheld, the Old Testament texts concerning to the restoration of the elect of Ephraim pertains to the descendants of the ten northern tribes and those concerning the elect gentiles pertain to those who are not descendants of the ten tribes. Your comments make no such distinctions so they are anachronistic, anthropologically as well as scripturally.
Your interpretation ends the inerrancy of scripture in that it no longer maintains the OT as a guide for the original addressees, as well as succeeding generations. The inerrancy of the OT is shattered when the prophets are interpreted as in error concerning the identity of Ephraim, or that the ten northern tribes become synonymous with the gentiles, undistinguishable by God as to who is a descendant of Ephraim and who is not. God’s omniscience is called into question if he is unable to make such a distinction in the end and having ordained it to the prophets who lived thousands of years before its consummation. The prophets are simply incapable of relating the future events concerning their people to their contemporaries and their future descendants in such an interpretation as yours that attacks the inerrancy of the OT.
As to my comments that Christ returns to execute the prophecies of the Davidic kingdom you wrote,
You’re just making my point that elements of the Davidic kingdom had come to fruition in that generation conveyed as the kingdom of God, but the Davidic kingdom is only consummated when Christ returns; the "kingdom of God" is not the Davidic kingdom to those who are well studied. As I stated, Jeremiah 23:1-6 affirms the Davidic kingdom executes judgment and justice for his people so that they dwell safely that is a counterpart of Ezekiel 38:8-12, which is why John cites from Ezekiel in the events succeeding Christ’s reign with the saints for 1000 years in Revelation 20. In this age the people of God are not secure, as Satan, the dragon, is allowed to make war with the saints and overcome them (Revelation 13).
Christ reigns in the hearts of the elect, but the world is still allowed to be deceived by Satan, so Christ not reigning over the world as yet. The promises of the Davidic kingdom execute judgment and justice for his people so that they dwell safely, which is not consummated until Christ returns and executes the promises pertaining to the Davidic kingdom.
Ephraim is amongst the gentiles, which does not mean God is unable to discern who is a descendant of Ephraim and who is not. God’s omniscience is called into question if he is unable to make such a distinction in the end and having had ordained it to the prophets who lived thousands of years before its consummation. The prophets are simply incapable of relating the future events concerning their people to their contemporaries and their future descendants in such an interpretation as yours and supersessionism.
Your confusing Satan’s release from the pit with his being cast to the earth. The contrast between the two vindicates they are not synchronous.
The modest Bible expositors are indifferent to the seven months that separated the spring and autumnal festivals, amongst numerous other issues that vindicate Hebrews 9:24 is not about the day of atonement. The day of atonement was connected to judgment, which is not what Christ came for (John 12:47).
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