Replacement Theology and Anti-Semitism

[JustinWindsor]

Why you are promoting Jewish theology on a Christian board. Or, perhaps this question should be directed to the moderators.

What a defense or rebuttal. I guess I shouldn't have bothered.

 

[muffler dragon]

Why you are promoting Jewish theology on a Christian board. Or, perhaps this question should be directed to the moderators.

Why go with a threat when you can carry out the action?

However, since I am not breaking any rules by presenting the Anti-Semitism of Replacement Theology; I'm not that worried about it.

1) Replacement Theology is not a Jewish Theology. As you're aware, it's your "religion's" doctrine (at least for some of it's constituency).
2) I have shown adequately that ONE MAJOR fruit of Replacement Theology is anti-semitism.
3) You've presented no rebuttal; therefore, my premise stands as correct until toppled by a stronger argument.

Your angst regarding Judaism is quite interesting to see, indeed.

 

[muffler dragon]

Btw, JW, here is the caption for the Liberal Theology Forum:

A new forum for the discussion and debate of liberal theological views and controversial topics in Christianity.

I would say this is the perfect forum for my thread.

 

[JustinWindsor]

Would be quite useless to you since they are based on New Testament Scripture which you do not recognize as inspired. The following passage is from Paul's letter to the Church at Galatia, Chapter 2, and, in my opinion, means what it says;

11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. 17"If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

 

[JustinWindsor]

1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

6Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you." 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. 10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

 

[muffler dragon]

What exactly are you rebutting? That Replacement Theology is NOT anti-semitic? Or are you asserting that it is anti-semitic? Any of the above?

The natural progression in this thread would be the following:

OP presents information that links Replacement Theology to Anti-Semitism
Responders (in disagreement) would provide information that says Replacement Theology is NOT Anti-Semitic.

If you want to discuss the validity of Replacement Theology, then I will gladly start another thread. Is that what you would like to do?

 

[JustinWindsor]

...would you start another thread to discuss replacement theology when the name of this Thread is Replacement Theology and Anti-Semitism. By YOUR definition Replacement Theology (not my label, yours) is Anti Semetic. But then again, you have demonstrated that you see the New Testament as anti- semetic. I simply pointed out that it was no more anti-semetic than Jewish Theology is anti-Christian.

You can call Old Testament theology what you want. However, interpreting the Old Testament without the lens of the Apostle's teaching in the New Testament is JEWISH by definition.

You keep saying that Replacement Theology is Anti-Semetic. I say it is only Anti-Semetic by your definition of what Anti-Semetic is. I don't hate anyone of Jewish ancestry. But I disagree with Jewish Theology. In your opinion, does that make me Anti-Semetic?

What exactly are you rebutting? That Replacement Theology is NOT anti-semitic? Or are you asserting that it is anti-semitic? Any of the above?

The natural progression in this thread would be the following:

OP presents information that links Replacement Theology to Anti-Semitism
Responders (in disagreement) would provide information that says Replacement Theology is NOT Anti-Semitic.

If you want to discuss the validity of Replacement Theology, then I will gladly start another thread. Is that what you would like to do?

 

[JustinWindsor]

23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[muffler dragon]

...would you start another thread to discuss replacement theology when the name of this Thread is Replacement Theology and Anti-Semitism.

Because the two are separatable. That's why. Do you not see that? I can just as easily bring up a thread that says, "Does the "New" Testament support Replacement Theology?" That has nothing to do with the Anti-Semitism that has come about because of it. See the difference?

By YOUR definition Replacement Theology (not my label, yours) is Anti Semetic.

Then PROVE this out. That's what this thread is for. Show me how Replacement Theology is NOT Anti-Semitic.

But then again, you have demonstrated that you see the New Testament as anti- semetic.

No, I have not. I have not asserted such an idea overtly or covertly. I do not believe that the "New" Testament as a whole is Anti-Semitic. There are portions that are, and there are doctrines that are made from it that are anti-semitic. I have no idea if you'll understand that difference.

I simply pointed out that it was no more anti-semetic than Jewish Theology is anti-Christian.

So what? That's not a point. That's not a substantive statement. It's nothing more than your opinion. If you want to discuss that; then start a thread, and we'll have at it. I can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Judaism and the Tanakh are kind not only to all Christians, but also to all the Gentiles of the World. Salvation was not a selection committee-based consideration even in the Tanakh.

You can call Old Testament theology what you want. However, interpreting the Old Testament without the lens of the Apostle's teaching in the New Testament is JEWISH by definition.

I know that. I understand completely that looking at the Tanakh through the eyes of the writers is a Jewish consideration. That's called context. And in this regard, it's the proper perspective to have.

You keep saying that Replacement Theology is Anti-Semetic. I say it is only Anti-Semetic by your definition of what Anti-Semetic is. I don't hate anyone of Jewish ancestry.

Definition of "anti-semitism" according to www.m-w.com:

: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

Replacement Theology is hostile to the Jews in that it considers them the "killers of Christ" and therefore, replaces them with the Christian Church.

Replacement Theology discriminates against Jews in that it believes they have to be a part of the Christian Church in order to gain salvation. Outside of the church, they are damned.

You tell me if Replacement Theology is Anti-Semitic according to the definition given?

But I disagree with Jewish Theology. In your opinion, does that make me Anti-Semetic?

Disagreeing is one thing. The contempt that you show is another. I can disagree with a Christian on Scripture; condemning them to damnation is another.

 

[muffler dragon]

23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Would you please stop posting random passages of the "New" Testament? If you're going to post them, then at least give a commentary on how it relates.

 

[christalee4]

Muffler - I have read through the entire thread and wanted to let you know that your original post was sound and right on.

It is unfortunate that the Christian Reconstructionists, who have influenced many churches in Baptist and Reformed, have fomented hatred and anti Semitism.

For anyone who wishes to read further, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that ordinary people in Germany, good religious people, were driven by their religion and hatred to personally kill Jewish people: "Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust", by Daniel Goldhagen.

It is sad and terrible, that replacement theology, as espoused by Rushdoony and other Reconstructionists, exists today to keep the fires of anti Semitic hatred going.

 

[muffler dragon]

Muffler - I have read through the entire thread and wanted to let you know that your original post was sound and right on.

It is unfortunate that the Christian Reconstructionists, who have influenced many churches in Baptist and Reformed, have fomented hatred and anti Semitism.

For anyone who wishes to read further, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that ordinary people in Germany, good religious people, were driven by their religion and hatred to personally kill Jewish people: "Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust", by Daniel Goldhagen.

It is sad and terrible, that replacement theology, as espoused by Rushdoony and other Reconstructionists, exists today to keep the fires of anti Semitic hatred going.

Thank you very much.

The only thing that comes to mind that falls outside of your post is that Christian Reconstructionists are not the only propagaters of this belief. But I'm sure you know that. My pedantic mind feels the need to make things plain sometimes.

 

[Arc]

I think this whole issue could be resolved very easily if one could prove their Jewish bloodline traced back to Abraham. Without that evidence, no one can claim that they are truly Jewish, and no one can be sure they don't have Jewish blood in them without knowing it.

Unless being Jewish today is just a religious term given to those who practice Judaism without reference to one's descenedants.

So tell me, how does one know if he is a Jew or not?

 

[Simonline]

Well you say that God will never abolish his covenant and make a new one, right? God says in Jeremiah that he will, though. How do you take that verse?

The Scriptures teach that God will never revoke his covenant to take the descendents of Abraham Isaac and Jacob to himself as a permanent possession. Israel, by which I mean the physical descendents of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, are forever the representative ['chosen'] people of God. Furthermore, it is from that seed-bed and culture that any true faith comes (Rom.9-11 esp. 9:1-5) and any faith which has it's origins in any other seed-bed or culture is a false [apostate?] faith and will be repudiated as such on the Day of Judgment.

The Scriptures repudiate the idea that Gentiles must become Jews in order to be 'saved' (Acts.15) but by exactly the same principle it also repudiates any idea that Jews must repudiate their Jewish heritage and culture and become Gentile 'Christians' in order to be 'saved'.

The covenant to take Abraham Isaac and Jacob's descendents to himself as his personal possession was made with Abraham Isaac and Jacob. The covenant of which Jeremiah speaks with regard to replacing it was not that covenant but the one which God made with the Israelites themselves through Moses as enacted upon mount Sinai. It was this conditional element within the context of the original communal covenent made with their forefathers Abraham Isaac and Jacob which was changed, not the communal 'Abrahamic' Covenant itself (since the Bible is its own best interpreter read Jer.31:31-37 in conjunction with Gal.3:15-25 preferably in the Jewish New Testament by David Stern since this replaces the antisemitic use of the terms 'law' and 'being under the Law' in most English translations with the correct theological terms of 'legalism' and 'being in subjection to the system which results from perverting the Law (i.e.'Torah') into legalism' which is an entirely different thing (Rom.7:12)).

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

For those for whom the very idea of Christian anti-semitism is an entirely new concept I should like to recommend two excellent books by Fred Wright: Father Forgive Us - A Christian Response To The Church's Heritage Of Jewish Persecution published by Monarch Books (in conjunction with Olive Press) [ISBN 1-85424-605-4] and Words From the Scroll Of Fire published by Four Corners Publishing [ISBN 9-65222-579-7].

Whilst the first book may be bought from any good bookstore the second book may only be available from Christian Friends of Israel http://www.cfijerusalem.org/ (details of local national branches: http://www.cfijerusalem.org/contactus.asp?id=1&cat=1)

C.F.I. - U.S.A.
Hannele Pardain
PO Box 4388
Greensboro, NC 27404-4388
USA
Telephone (1) 336 662-0900
Fax (1) 336 662-0910
email http://</font><a href=[email="cfiusa@cfi-usa.org"]cfiusa@cfi-usa.org[/email] (office)
web http://</font>[url=[url="http://www.cfi-usa.org/"]www.cfi-usa.org[/url]


Both of these works are truely an education in themselves and well worth the effort of obtaining them.

Simonline.

 

[muffler dragon]

I'm trying to figure out if this post even warrants a response.

I think this whole issue could be resolved very easily if one could prove their Jewish bloodline traced back to Abraham. Without that evidence, no one can claim that they are truly Jewish, and no one can be sure they don't have Jewish blood in them without knowing it.

Unless being Jewish today is just a religious term given to those who practice Judaism without reference to one's descenedants.

So tell me, how does one know if he is a Jew or not?

I'll go ahead and presume that you're asking a sincere question.

http://www.cohen-levi.org/jewish_genes_and_genealogy/the_dna_chain_of_tradition.htm

Jewish status is determined by the mother. Tribe membership follows the father’s line.