2calvary said:The blood shed at the cross gives the remission of sin("In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: " - Col 1:14), believing receives remission of sins("everyone who believes in him will receive remission of sins.? - Acts 10:43).
Question: Is remission of sin received by repenting, being baptized, or just believing?
sweetsoulsong said:Excuse my sluggishness in response here, but thanks Reformationist, that was good.
Does this mean...that those who have not had "hands laid on them" do not have the Spirit...? By the way, I hear this from a tv preacher.
Reformationist said:They have been forgiven for Christ's sake, not our own. He atoned for them. You can slice it any way you want but either you have to take the Catholic track and apply the atone work of Christ to ONLY the stain of original sin or you must acknowledge that the obedience of Christ, even unto death, atonED (notice the tense), for our sins.
This would be an issue of all God did was forgive us. Thank His gracious name that that is not all He does. Living a lifestyle of sinfulness, which is markedly different than sinning, is something that the Christian puts off, due to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I sure wish you'd stop saying "we all believe..." without being more specific about what it is that you THINK "we all believe." You believe repentence is a must IN ORDER TO BE SAVED whereas I believe salvation is a must IN ORDER TO REPENT. Pretty big difference.
Once again, a non issue. Those who are born again DO repent so it is pointless to consider the consequence for those who are born again who do not repent.
I guess it depends on what you credit for your desire and subsequent commission of the act of repentence. If you believe repentence to be due to the efficacious grace of God then no, no mockery is made. However, if you credit your own "cooperation" with that grace as the catalyst for your act of repentence then sure, I would say that's a mockery.
God bless
The idea that the only way to receive the Holy Spirit is clearly unscriptural and sounds like something that comes out of the "Faith Movement" in today's church. I'm amazed at the number of unsound teachings that come from today's "TV preachers." There are some really good ones, but there seem to be many preachers on TV that teach unbiblical doctrines. This would be one of them.sweetsoulsong said:I have another question, in Acts, it says that believers got the Spirit when er...the apostles "laid hands on them"...something that has to do with laying hands on the believers and praying.
Does this mean...that those who have not had "hands laid on them" do not have the Spirit...? By the way, I hear this from a tv preacher.
Shelb5 said:The Catholic track is that Christ did atone for all the sins of the world, not just original sin. I do not know where you got that the cross is only to take away Adam's sin and not our personal sin???
What is so wrong with admitting that repentance after being saved by grace is required by God
and if you believe in the reformed theology then that means God provides the full requirement in you and if you are a free will believer then that means you cooperated with the grace that God gives, either way if you don?t repent after you offended God, you were either not really saved or you really won?t be saved. What?s the difference? Bottom line is Christian repents.
Reformationist said:Actually I got that from you but I must have misunderstood. My apologies. So it is your contention that every sin of every person ever created has already been atoned for? That would make you a universalist.
Nothing, as long as I'm not admitting to "repentence after being saved by grace is required by God to remain saved."
I'm not discussing the difference between the anthropocentric view that God's grace is only effective if you cooperate and the God centered view that His grace ALWAYS accomplishes that for which He gives it. What I'm curious about is whether you see a difference between repentence being required to be obedient and repentence being required for salvation?
God bless
That's not what you said. You said, "Christ DID ATONE for all the sins of the world, not just original sin."Shelb5 said:No it doesn't, it makes me a Catholic. Jesus blood was shed for humanity, so that mankind may be saved.
Asked and answered, numerous times.If he gives you a heart that repents then obviously he requires repentance from you, no??
The Word clearly says that when we have kept the ENTIRE Law of God we have done NOTHING more than what was required of us. Let me ask you something Michelle. Are you obedient? Is there ever a time when you aren't obedient? If so, that makes you disobedient. If our salvation depended on our ALWAYS being obedient then no one would be saved.Why are we required to be obedient? And if we are then we are saved and if we aren't, then what?
Reformationist said:That's not what you said. You said, "Christ DID ATONE for all the sins of the world, not just original sin."
So, according to you, all sins, original and personal, have been atonED for.
You should look up the word "atone." It might help.
Additionally, as I've said before, when you introduce the word "may" in the context that you use it, you have to acknowledge there are two possibilities aside from the possibility that some are saved and some are not. Those possibilities are as follows: All are saved. None are saved. Do you think it's possible that the death of Christ could have saved none? If not, then your use of the word "may" becomes nothing more than an effort to justify your position, despite the contradiction with the Gospel.
The Word clearly says that when we have kept the ENTIRE Law of God we have done NOTHING more than what was required of us. Let me ask you something Michelle. Are you obedient? Is there ever a time when you aren't obedient? If so, that makes you disobedient. If our salvation depended on our ALWAYS being obedient then no one would be saved.
God bless
Shelb5 said:Yeah, he did and he did it so "sins may be forgiven."
Yep, all sins are atoned for but not all sinners are redeemed.
I could say the same to you.
I use it as in Christ wrote the check out at the cross and the funds are valid to all who will cash the check.
But I am trying to understand your theology, it seem as if obedience is a fruit of being truly saved
and if you are truly saved, you will be obedient, and you will be repentful and all other virtues will follow
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