Repentance

[NDE Master]

Salvation is twofold in application. Firstly, we need the problem of our shortcomings and failures dealt with in some way. Secondly, there is the matter of death we all one day will die. Jesus has provided us with a response for both. That is something we cannot do for ourselves. That is what 100% God means. We receive as a gift.

John
NZ

This does not help me any. It does not answer the original questions. Why can't everyone get the gift then, if it's so free and 100 percent God's doing.

God saves us 100%.

Man damns himself by rejecting the Christ as His Savior and the forgiveness that was won at the cross. We can't blame God for man's rejection.

Let's stay on the original topic. But I will say that in accepting Jesus you must do something. Weather it's thinking something or believing something or doing something. It's all still some kind of action on the part of the person. IMO even thoughts are a certain kind of action. Anyway let's stay on the original question.

Working out our salvation with fear and trembling does not mean that we're the ones doing any of the work for the actual salvation. It's God's work 100%. Man does NOT contribute.

It sounds like God turns you into a robot so that he can save you.

You can't take one verse and make it mean something. It has to be taken in consideration with other scripture...scripture interprets scripture. [/QUOTE]
I will say, you can't take one verse and try to explain it by saying what it's not.

So what does that verse mean then in context of other scriptures about working out our salvation? It seems to me that you don't know what it really means.

James' talking about works is meant for the person who already believes. We do works because we are saved.

I guess I can accept that.

 

[Johnnz]

Originally Posted by Johnnz

Salvation is twofold in application. Firstly, we need the problem of our shortcomings and failures dealt with in some way. Secondly, there is the matter of death we all one day will die. Jesus has provided us with a response for both. That is something we cannot do for ourselves. That is what 100% God means. We receive as a gift.

John
NZ
​

This does not help me any. It does not answer the original questions. Why can't everyone get the gift then, if it's so free and 100 percent God's doing.

Hi,

The gift is freely available. Like any gift it must be received.

John
NZ

 

[NDE Master]

Originally Posted by Johnnz Salvation is twofold in application. Firstly, we need the problem of our shortcomings and failures dealt with in some way. Secondly, there is the matter of death we all one day will die. Jesus has provided us with a response for both. That is something we cannot do for ourselves. That is what 100% God means. We receive as a gift.

John
NZ
[/INDENT]
This does not help me any. It does not answer the original questions. Why can't everyone get the gift then, if it's so free and 100 percent God's doing.

Hi,

The gift is freely available. Like any gift it must be received.

John
NZ

In simplest terms what is required to receive this gift?

 

[Johnnz]

Accepting that, in Jesus' being raised from the dead, God has attested that the way is open for us to freely approach Him. There is a 'done deal' between Father and Son on our behalf.

John
NZ

 

[NDE Master]

Accepting that, in Jesus' being raised from the dead, God has attested that the way is open for us to freely approach Him. There is a 'done deal' between Father and Son on our behalf.

John
NZ

So it's not 100 percent God's doing. Accepting Jesus is a part of the receiving God's salvation. If that is the case then it's not 100 percent God's work. This does not even get into all of that talk about working out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Peace.

 

[LilLamb219]

We receive what already is true...that Jesus died on the cross and our sins are forgiven. We can't actively DO something. God gives us the gift of faith in order to believe in the Gospel message. It's all God's doing.

 

[NDE Master]

We receive what already is true...that Jesus died on the cross and our sins are forgiven. We can't actively DO something. God gives us the gift of faith in order to believe in the Gospel message. It's all God's doing.

My receiving the gift is not God's doing, yet it's the determining factor in the equation.

And if we can't actively DO something as you say, then what was all that talk by James Jesus's brother emphasizing works. Something like faith without works is dead already.

James 2:17
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

I trust James more than Paul. He was a direct disciple of Jesus and his brother.

Peace.

 

[LilLamb219]

Faith without works is dead because faith WILL produce works. It doesn't mean that works contribute in any way to our salvation. Jesus did ALL the works necessary in our substitute.

Our receiving the gift IS God's doing...totally. It's like the rain falling on your head...you can't force it to happen but you can surely run inside and dry yourself off and say No Thank You.

My receiving the gift is not God's doing, yet it's the determining factor in the equation.

And if we can't actively DO something as you say, then what was all that talk by James Jesus's brother emphasizing works. Something like faith without works is dead already.

James 2:17
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

I trust James more than Paul. He was a direct disciple of Jesus and his brother.

Peace.

 

[Johnnz]

So it's not 100 percent God's doing. Accepting Jesus is a part of the receiving God's salvation. If that is the case then it's not 100 percent God's work. This does not even get into all of that talk about working out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Peace.

Of course we do something. We are not programmed robots. We have nothing to contribute in anyway to the gift God offers us. But we can either accept of reject it.

Where is that reference to working out etc?

John
nZ

 

[Johnnz]

Hi,

I am not lillamb. I have not stated that. Nor do I accept that position.

The verse you referred to is:
Phil 2:12-14 12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed — not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence — continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

What Paul was setting out was a conclusion from what had gone before, including having the self giving characteristics of Christ. That would involve deliberate life choices to allow God's life to continue transforming us. But Paul did not have in mind striving to remain a Christian when he used those words. The next verse tells us why - It's God's life at work within us. That takes away our need for anxious striving to 'stay in' our commitment to Jesus. V 13 is important.

John
NZ
NIV

 

[NDE Master]

Thanks AP

I am not lillamb. I have not stated that. Nor do I accept that position.

So you and lillamb disagree on this? Funny because Lillamb never responded to AP.

The verse you referred to is:
Phil 2:12-14 12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed — not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence — continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

What Paul was setting out was a conclusion from what had gone before, including having the self giving characteristics of Christ. That would involve deliberate life choices to allow God's life to continue transforming us. But Paul did not have in mind striving to remain a Christian when he used those words. The next verse tells us why - It's God's life at work within us. That takes away our need for anxious striving to 'stay in' our commitment to Jesus. V 13 is important.

John
NZ
NIV

I guess you could interpret it that way. I don’t think I would call fear and trembling good self giving characteristics. But OK.

Alright, thanks for your time Johnnz. I think we're done, though me and Lillamb still have a little bit more talking to do I think.

Thanks.