Repentance

[asiyreh]

Listen Arm your on the right Path here Brother. You're actually much further along than your first posts indicated.

Here's the truth of the matter and it's kind of ironic. The whole worlds out there running from the Law. They'll say I'm not going to be one of those Christians, it's to hard, all those Laws. But come closer to Christ and he'll whisper his secret. True Christians are the only people on Earth not under the Law.

All the world out there thinking they can run from the Law, if only they can amuse themselves long enough to stop hearing the condemnation. And yet had they only known Christ for them, the Law could no longer accuse.

But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. John 5:45

Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Mat 11:28

Take it all and lay it at his feet my friend. Every day choose Christ

Good luck and God bless you, In Jesus's name.

 

[Willie T]

My wife had no idea what that Paul Washer video was. And after about 7 minutes of it, she asked, "What kind of garbage do you have playing over there!?!?" "Why on Earth are you even listening to something like that?"

I had to smile.

 

[hedrick]

I just watched about 30 min of the Paul Washer video. Let me be blunt. That video opposes what Christ was trying to teach.

It's probably unfair to judge Washer by this one sermon. Many people see him as a faithful Calvinist, which would imply that someplace he must be giving a better account than in this particular sermon. My comments are going to be based strictly on that video.

Note Washer's use of Scripture. He uses several passages that say Christians should bear fruit. He quotes them extensively. But he doesn't quote any passages that say what the fruit should be. There's good reason for that, because his definition doesn't match Jesus'.

For him fruit means separation from the world. Don't watch carnal TV shows or wear carnal clothing. And be sexually pure. I'm sorry, but that's not what Jesus said. For Jesus fruit was acts of love. Washer was speaking to teens. it's pretty clear that for him, a Christian teen is going to look different from others. Different clothing, ways of speaking, entertainment. Probably only hang out with other Christians. But I claim that if you read the Gospels, Christian teens would look just like the others, would join everyone else in their entertainment. You would know them because they refuse to let kids be left out because they're unpopular. They would provide support for those who are being bullied. They would spend time with other kids who need it, even if they are "sinners." They would be involved in service projects around the community.

I had the honor of mentoring a teen like this over the summer. One thing I found interesting is that he didn't say "I've got to show that I'm a Christian. What can I do?" Instead the things he did came as genuine reactions to what was happening around him. I think Washer doesn't trust Christ enough. He doesn't trust that if you follow Jesus, he will help you develop the right fruit. He wants to rile people up and get doing things out of fear. I'm afraid that if that happens, there's a good chance that what they do won't be what God really wants them to do.

I think Washer is trying to get people to do exactly what Jesus condemns. Mat 7:21 doesn't speak just of people saying "Lord, Lord" without acting. He quotes only part of the passage. The passage talks about people casting out demons and doing acts of power in Jesus name. These people are doing just the kind of Christian-looking acts that Washer is concerned about. But they aren't the will of God. The passage is about people who don't wait for acts to be genuinely fruit of their faith, but insist on doing things that look Christian on their own. But I claim that this is exactly what Washer's teaching is likely to do: It's going to cause kids to be worried that they aren't doing enough Christian-looking things, and do things in fear, and not because they're the things that Jesus really wants them to do.

Were there people like Washer in the 1st Cent? Sure. They're called Pharisees. They are the people who believed that Israel should be a holy people, separate from the world, that they should do that by obeying God's rules, interpreted in ways that specifically set a boundary between the righteous and ordinary people. Jesus was the one who got in trouble as a law-breaker, one who preferred to eat with sinners than holy people. When he talked about judgement, he never said that God would judge people because they were too worldly, but because they didn't show love.

There are also doctrinal issues with the video. I believe he is confusing the fruit with the tree. If the Christian life is truly fruit, Jesus would maintain that the way you get fruit is by paying attention to the tree. He seems to be focusing on the symptoms. But you don't become a Christian by adopting a Christian-looking lifestyle. You become a Christian by loving God and your fellow man, following Christ, and letting him lead you into changes. But this is where it's dangerous to judge from a single video. Perhaps he gives a proper presentation of the Gospel and repentance elsewhere. He sure doesn't do it in this video.

 

[timf]

Hedrick,

I agree with your concern over the works aspect of repenting. Here is a link that goes into a little more about it;

Christian Pioneer - Do we need to repent to be saved?

 

[Willie T]

Hedrick,

Probably one of the best posts I have ever read on this forum.

Thank you.

 

[Peripatetic]

But you don't become a Christian by adopting a Christian-looking lifestyle. You become a Christian by loving God and your fellow man, following Christ, and letting him lead you into changes.

The definition of true Christianity, and what's wrong with it today... all summed up in two inspired sentences. This forum can be a home to trolls and false teaching, but I am very thankful that God is at work here too.

 

[Willie T]

duplicate post

 

[Soverinth]

Hedrick,
I agree with your concern over the works aspect of repenting. Here is a link that goes into a little more about it;

This is a paragraph from the link you sent timf:

"Our awareness of sin is only possible because we have experienced a change of mind. People who have not received a new life in Christ are not able to understand their sin. Metanoia is often accompanied by feelings of sorrow and regret. "


^That is what confuses me the most. It makes it sound like i'm lost in my sin for the rest of my life until God shows me. That may not be the case entirely but it's what it seems like.

 

[Johnnz]

This is a paragraph from the link you sent timf:

"Our awareness of sin is only possible because we have experienced a change of mind. People who have not received a new life in Christ are not able to understand their sin. Metanoia is often accompanied by feelings of sorrow and regret. "


^That is what confuses me the most. It makes it sound like i'm lost in my sin for the rest of my life until God shows me. That may not be the case entirely but it's what it seems like.

You need to change your focus from being too sin focused and not enough about life, which is what Jesus gives us. Start living out of who you are in Christ now. Do that and you will discover things you might begin to see differently.

John
NZ

 

[joey_downunder]

Note Washer's use of Scripture. He uses several passages that say Christians should bear fruit.....
For him fruit means separation from the world.

Thanks for that observation hedrick! I watched this video a long time ago and hadn't been able to put my finger on what was missing and/or distorted at the time! Washer talks all about what "Christians don't." Just like the Pharisees he is too outward-appearance focused. Towards the end of this preaching he should have used the opportunity to inspire and encourage teenagers about what "Christians do in response to God's love for us".

----
armizer, somewhere I heard this explanation and it stuck with me:
the Christian walks a narrow path that has deep ditches either side. One ditch is legalism -trying to earn God's favour- the other is licentiousness - abusing God's grace.

How do we keep on that straight-and-narrow road?

Let your eyes look directly forward,
and your gaze be straight before you.
Ponder the path of your feet;
then all your ways will be sure.
Do not swerve to the right or to the left;
turn your foot away from evil. (Proverbs 4:25-27)

You keep your eyes directly on Jesus.

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:1-2)

If you keep your eyes on Jesus you are free to walk in His grace, free from all the rules-and-regulations of the Law.

If you keep your eyes on Jesus you will see how much God loves you; as a result you do not want to stay in your sinful condition, you will want to grow spiritually, become more holy, become more like Him.

When you learn about the whole Gospel, about the magnititude of what Jesus did (so we didn't have to be perfect) you will learn we can't ever do enough to earn God's favour, it is a gift from Him.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

 

[hedrick]

This is a paragraph from the link you sent timf:

"Our awareness of sin is only possible because we have experienced a change of mind. People who have not received a new life in Christ are not able to understand their sin. Metanoia is often accompanied by feelings of sorrow and regret. "

^That is what confuses me the most. It makes it sound like i'm lost in my sin for the rest of my life until God shows me. That may not be the case entirely but it's what it seems like.

That's the classical Christian view. People are in denial until moved by the Holy Spirit.

There's some merit to it, but don't push it too far. Obviously everyone knows they're not perfect. What being Christian changes is knowing what God intended for us, and realizing that moral failures are also a rejection of God's will for us. Sin is really rejection of God, not just doing bad things. So while everyone understand that they make mistakes and do the wrong thing, only Christians understand what they've done as sin, and turn to God deal help deal with it.

But Johnnz is right. Don't get too focused on sin. Focus on Jesus, and on what God wants you to be, which is largely positive. Deal with sin as it trips you up, which it will, but the new life in Christ is more than just not sinning. It's becoming Jesus' hands on earth. And we don't have to perfect to do that, though obviously being closer to God helps.

 

[Soverinth]

Do any of you guys have a good video that i can show to whomever that pretty much sums up the main purpose of Christianity and what it takes.

 

[LilLamb219]

Jonathan Fisk

and

Pastor Lassman

both have wonderful videos for Christians to watch on YouTube.

 

[asiyreh]

Do any of you guys have a good video that i can show to whomever that pretty much sums up the main purpose of Christianity and what it takes.

Christ what it takes my friend.

I always find it's helpful if you change the context of the situation, helps people consider this question.

Consider this, you've just died and your standing at the Great White throne of Judgement. Like a bad movie your life is played out before you and you are asked for an answer.

Funny most atheists answer this question:- Well I just tell him I did the best I could and if he doesn't like it, ...

Now laying aside their disgusting blasphemy which unfortunately in the ministry of the gospel my delicate little ears have been subjected to, on far more occasions than I'd prefer to count. But let's lay that aside and read between the lines here. What are they trying to do?...

They're trying to justify themselves by the works of the Law.

It's remarkable they pretty much all give this same answer. I find this very significant.

Christ is what it takes. This is a story that goes right back to genesis. Not a popular theme in our scientific age and not the topic of this discussion so consider the "story" of Cain and Able.

God asks Cain and Able to answer this question you have asked. Cain brings God the fruits of His Labor, Able on the other hand brings, A Lamb for sacrifice... Here is the answer.

Christ is Our Father and describes his Love for the Church as a Good husband willing to lay down his life for her.

If your question is now you are in Christ, what should you do, the answer is here.

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. Philippians 2

As a brother in Christ offering advise. I feel the spirit drawing my mind to this passage

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 1 Peter 3:15

To accomplish this:-

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

You're on to something with the videos, lectures and debates are an excellent way to begin studying. You can learn very quickly from them. Books offer deeper insight once you have a good foundation so don't count them out. And for even deeper insight the Holy Spirit in prayer and meditation.

There's no one video on everything though. The study of Christianity is a mine of information in theology, science, archaeology, philosophy, history and on and on. It just beautiful and always has something new to offer.

 

[timur123456789]

I'm trying to understand this.

Why is it so hard to repent.

The bible and other people make it sound so easy but i just don't understand.

How do i repent? How can i tell if i'm not repenting the way i should be?

Repentance when is when you recognize evil in yourself and STOP doing that evil.

16 Wash yourselves, purify yourselves. Put away the evil of your doings from My sight; stop doing evil.
17 Learn to do good, seek justice, straighten the oppressor, judge the orphan, strive for the widow.
18 Come now and let us reason together, says Jehovah: Though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they are red as the crimson, they shall be like wool.
(LITV Isa.1:16-18)

Quoting Isiah we can say that repentance is "Wash yourselves...stop doing evil.... Learn to do good, "

 

[Soverinth]

Whelp, early tomorrow morning i am going to go see a pastor as i desperately need to talk to someone face to face about my issues. Your guy's help has been tremendous to ease my worries. But i'm not going to get anywhere by staying inside 24/7, hoping that this issue will fix itself. Wish me luck.

 

[asiyreh]

Whelp, early tomorrow morning i am going to go see a pastor as i desperately need to talk to someone face to face about my issues. Your guy's help has been tremendous to ease my worries. But i'm not going to get anywhere by staying inside 24/7, hoping that this issue will fix itself. Wish me luck.

Yes this is a good choice. See the spirit works inside you already to accomplish His purpose. Mind if I get a little nosy and ask which church you're seeking fellowship with?

 

[Soverinth]

Yes this is a good choice. See the spirit works inside you already to accomplish His purpose. Mind if I get a little nosy and ask which church you're seeking fellowship with?

Well i can't post a link but the Church is called "Chardon Christian Fellowship"

Just Google that it should be the first one.

 

[asiyreh]

Looks all good. Good luck brother.

 

[hedrick]

Do any of you guys have a good video that i can show to whomever that pretty much sums up the main purpose of Christianity and what it takes.

Unfortunately no brief video can encompass all of Christianity. The briefest summary I know is this: Marcus Borg: Message of Christianity - Video - Beliefnet.com

However because of its brevity it doesn't give that much of the content of Christianity. This is not an evangelical version, because I don't think evangelical Christianity is the best presentation of Jesus' own teachings.

For you, I've got something more complete, but I'm guessing this is too long for your purposes. It's from a debate between Ferngren and Borg, both of whom were faculty at the University of Oregon: The Heart of Christianity (Part 1/9) - YouTube. Ferngren takes a traditional evangelical position, though he doesn't push "the born-again experience" as much as many evangelicals would. Borg is one of the best-known spokesmen for "liberal" Christianity. In my opinion his presentation is more in tune with Jesus' actual teachings than Ferngren's is. However most CF readers would disagree with me. You'll have to judge for yourself. (What I find interesting is that when they talk about what Christianity means in their lives they are surprisingly similar. For both, it is more a way of life than a set of beliefs, though beliefs are important as a basis for the way of life.)

Incidentally, the Church you are going to visit appears to me from its web site to be a reasonable example of this traditional Christianity. I believe they can help you with your problems. However, while I don't know it in specific, the tradition from which they come in my opinion misunderstands significant parts of Jesus' teaching. I've talked about this in another thread. (This thread, and the New Christian group, is probably not the best place to look at the differences between traditional evangelicals and more liberal evangelicals / mainline.) But it doesn't appear to be the kind of extreme view that's been a problem for you, which is why I say I think they can help you.