Repent... or not.

[Phred]

I really could care less if people agree with me - any knowledge, wisdom, truth or anything good that I have or do comes from God and not me.

Oh please, it's not God typing into a computer, it's you. YOU... take some responsibility. Yes, you believe the things you say are God's wishes... doesn't mean they are. I'm not questioning your faith here, I'm questioning how you portray it... as the responsibility of someone else.

But if you want an explanation, search the Bible for "do not understand" and you will see that what I say is scripturally sound and the reasoning for the not understanding is given.

Sure, then I'll interpret it my way, you'll interpret it yours... but you'll say it's God's way and that supercedes anything I could say.

.
​

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Oh please, it's not God typing into a computer, it's you. YOU... take some responsibility. Yes, you believe the things you say are God's wishes... doesn't mean they are. I'm not questioning your faith here, I'm questioning how you portray it... as the responsibility of someone else.

I see that my use of the qualifier "ANY" was lost on you. If the antithesis was true (i.e. being wrong, error, bad, etc.), it is all me.

Sure, then I'll interpret it my way, you'll interpret it yours... but you'll say it's God's way and that supercedes anything I could say.

No, it means God will be the judge and over time the truth may be made known to a larger degree.
As a side note: You will find that I can speak for myself and it would probably be less embarrassing for you not to try anticipating my responses.

 

[Ledifni]

I really could care less if people agree with me - any knowledge, wisdom, truth or anything good that I have or do comes from God and not me.

But if you want an explanation, search the Bible for "do not understand" and you will see that what I say is scripturally sound and the reasoning for the not understanding is given.

So, you could care less whether people agree with you, you just want people to agree with Truth -- which, naturally, is exactly what you think it is. Fascinating.

 

[Ledifni]

Now, I've read the rest of the thread and of course you're going to make the same objection to my post -- that you used the qualifier "any" and therefore are not claiming to be right. In expectation of that ploy, here's the evidence against you:

Fortunately, I don't have to defend against your assertions nor nursemaid my statement - The beauty and the power of the Truth.

The above quote states that your statements do not need proof because they are Truth and Truth stands absolutely. This directly contradicts your assertion that you may be wrong, and so I judge that the assertion in question was made to clear your name of the accusation of absolutism, and has no relevance to honesty or truth.

In other words, you just said you can be wrong because you didn't want anyone to think you're trying to claim absolute knowledge, not because you actually think there's any chance you could be wrong.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

When I made this thread, I was well aware of the compulsion of those that rebel against God which would force them to flock and attack. That group is driven by a need to do so in order to satisfy the emptiness their choice has left them.

If believing in something 'other than God' or denying God is so fulfilling, why are they here giving credence by way of their actions to that which they rebel against?

Thank you, but I would rather you repent and receive.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Sooo... which is more ridiculous? You arguing against something that allegedly doesn't exist or you arguing to someone that can't grasp reality?
I suppose logic is not everyone's gift.

Sigh, you just don't understand Truth!

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Now, I've read the rest of the thread and of course you're going to make the same objection to my post -- that you used the qualifier "any" and therefore are not claiming to be right. In expectation of that ploy, here's the evidence against you:



The above quote states that your statements do not need proof because they are Truth and Truth stands absolutely. This directly contradicts your assertion that you may be wrong, and so I judge that the assertion in question was made to clear your name of the accusation of absolutism, and has no relevance to honesty or truth.

In other words, you just said you can be wrong because you didn't want anyone to think you're trying to claim absolute knowledge, not because you actually think there's any chance you could be wrong.

In other words, you are not very good with logic or math...
Let me help you by breaking it down to smaller, more tangible thought...
If you have an equation before you, you can work it out to verify if it is true or false - given that you have those facilities.
IOW -
If my statement is true, it is true after testing. No modification or correction is needed to make it 'truer'.

If my statement is false, it is false until modified or corrected.

These are relatively simple concepts and truth is not dependant on the failure or success of 'others' for it to be true. This is where the thinkers and the doers divide.

 

[ASLER86]

Which Christ?

maybe you didn't read my comment correctly.

Christians believe in the one and only Christ, The Messiah, Yeshua, the Son of God, the one who came to save sinners, the one who died a horrific death on the cross so that we may fellowship with God.

I was comparing the idea of dogma to the Christ, what all churches and denominations have in common is Christ.

Did you have another Christ in mind?

 

[Spyr]

ChristianCenturion, just a question if I may. Have you ever, on this site, admitted you were wrong about something?

 

[Ledifni]

In other words, you are not very good with logic or math...
Let me help you by breaking it down to smaller, more tangible thought...
If you have an equation before you, you can work it out to verify if it is true or false - given that you have those facilities.
IOW -
If my statement is true, it is true after testing. No modification or correction is needed to make it 'truer'.

If my statement is false, it is false until modified or corrected.

These are relatively simple concepts and truth is not dependant on the failure or success of 'others' for it to be true. This is where the thinkers and the doers divide.

The above rant has absolutely nothing to do with either of the two statements I referenced, and is mere sophistry that attempts to discredit by changing the subject. I will not respond to such underhanded tactics.

 

[Westvleteren]

maybe you didn't read my comment correctly.

Christians believe in the one and only Christ, The Messiah, Yeshua, the Son of God, the one who came to save sinners, the one who died a horrific death on the cross so that we may fellowship with God.

I was comparing the idea of dogma to the Christ, what all churches and denominations have in common is Christ.

Did you have another Christ in mind?

Well, for starters, there's the "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword" Christ; then there's the "turn the other cheek" Christ. There's the infinite forgiveness Christ and the burn 'em in the lake of fire Christ. There's Son-of-God Christ and I'm-just-a-man Christ. There's the Old Testament Stamp of Approval Christ and the Ditch the Old Testament Christ...

Christians who define themselves as "Followers of Christ" still find ways to disagree on who they're following and what it means to follow him.

 

[vajradhara]

this entire thread has hurt my head...


of course, i'm not good with maths or logic, so there is actually little that can be done about it...

oh well...

that being the case, and realizing my own limitation, i suppose that i'll have to choose the "not" option since it's the only one which i'm actually capable of choosing... or not...

 

[ASLER86]

Well, for starters, there's the "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword" Christ; then there's the "turn the other cheek" Christ. There's the infinite forgiveness Christ and the burn 'em in the lake of fire Christ. There's Son-of-God Christ and I'm-just-a-man Christ. There's the Old Testament Stamp of Approval Christ and the Ditch the Old Testament Christ...

Christians who define themselves as "Followers of Christ" still find ways to disagree on who they're following and what it means to follow him.

Ah, okay, now I get what you meant.

Do you have any sources or Bible verses to support the above? You can start with that.

Well, most Christians, regardless of their denomination, would agree that Christ came to save sinners and that he died on the cross and rose again, correct?

Christ was fully God and fully human, he was Divine, but came to the earth as a baby and grew up in the harsh and cruel world so He can experience our harsh life. He did not sin, but He knew what it was like to be tempted. (Like other children, growing up, he probably knew what a skinned knee felt like too, lol)

The, "I come not to bring peace but the sword" Christ probably refers to the verse in Matthew 10:34 which states: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.."
Although this may seem like a contradiction to the whole "Prince of Peace" idea that Isaiah prophesied in the OT (Isaiah 9:6), the verse is more referring to the fact that His coming was not well accepted by all. If you read the verse in context you can see that most of Matthew chapter 10 is mainly devoted to the idea of persecution. Even today there is horrendous persecution, and Christianity divides families, especially in some countries where confessing Jesus is Lord means disownment and for some a death sentence. The inevitable result of Christ's coming was conflict...from Nero's persecution of the Christians in Rome, to conflict between Christ and the future antichrist, and between good and evil (The NIV Study Bible).

Overall Christ's message is peace. He died on the cross to forgive, so that we might have forgiveness and I guess you could say, spiritual peace. (peace on earth referring to wars, famine, etc won't cease until the end of the world when there is a "new heaven and a new earth")

Yes, denominations do agree on issues and I wish that it wasn't so. It seems as if the Christian church has lost it's focus on Christ while focusing on dogma, its sad but true but the even the leaders of the Church are only human.

Any church preaching violence against others can't be preaching the true Gospel.

Does that somewhat address what you are talking about?

 

[ChristianCenturion]

ChristianCenturion, just a question if I may. Have you ever, on this site, admitted you were wrong about something?

Yes. Behold! That which you seek.
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=14201249&postcount=205

I wish the questions were all this easy to answer.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

The above rant has absolutely nothing to do with either of the two statements I referenced, and is mere sophistry that attempts to discredit by changing the subject. I will not respond to such underhanded tactics.

More unfounded assertions and This isn't a response?

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

The above rant has absolutely nothing to do with either of the two statements I referenced, and is mere sophistry that attempts to discredit by changing the subject. I will not respond to such underhanded tactics.

Par for the course.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Par for the course.

Would you like to offer an actual, rational and true statement or are you content with echoing Ledifni in an opinion?

If you are more accustom to dealing with the more submissive and persuadable believers, I find the liberal groups more to that description. I however need actual substance to believe something and I have a firm grip on what I currently believe. I also have not been deceived into having my compassion be used as a tool against my faith and duped into believing that I should abandon what God has given me:

Luke 22:36
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Romans 13:4
For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Defense and justice are also Biblical.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Would you like to offer an actual, rational and true statement or are you content with echoing Ledifni in an opinion?

If you are more accustom to dealing with the more submissive and persuadable believers, I find the liberal groups more to that description. I however need actual substance to believe something and I have a firm grip on what I currently believe. I also have not been deceived into having my compassion be used as a tool against my faith and duped into believing that I should abandon what God has given me:

Luke 22:36
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Romans 13:4
For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Defense and justice are also Biblical.

No, I really have nothing to say to you. You come to a debate forum and then when debate is started with you, it gets abruptly stopped because you throw out some odd statement like... What I believe is the truth, so you're just wrong... Or that the person you are debating with doesn't understand something, because it differs from what you believe.

It gets no one anywhere, and I have no reason to further it any longer.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

No, I really have nothing to say to you. You come to a debate forum and then when debate is started with you, it gets abruptly stopped because you throw out some odd statement like... What I believe is the truth, so you're just wrong... Or that the person you are debating with doesn't understand something, because it differs from what you believe.

It gets no one anywhere, and I have no reason to further it any longer.

Well thank you then. They say people repeat actions that prove to work for them, so I take it that you are endorsing this one and abandoning yours.
You won't find me losing sleep over making a true statement and standing behind it, nor will you find me being slave to any John Doe or three that wishes to throw out 10 assertions and when most of those are shown to be false, throw 20 more out and say "there, all those are true unless you can prove otherwise".

A note: All I did was reside in the full Armor of God. Another truth that you may wish to investigate.

Ephesians 6:10-20
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

19Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

And that last portion is what this thread's intent is.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Well thank you then. They say people repeat actions that prove to work for them, so I take it that you are endorsing this one and abandoning yours.
You won't find me losing sleep over making a true statement and standing behind it, nor will you find me being slave to any John Doe or three that wishes to throw out 10 assertions and when most of those are shown to be false, throw 20 more out and say "there, all those are true unless you can prove otherwise".

A note: All I did was reside in the full Armor of God. Another truth that you may wish to investigate.

Ephesians 6:10-20
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

19Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

And that last portion is what this thread's intent is.

LOL, yes, you are correct. Your ability to end a debate because of a lack of debating skills is one that you use often and does work.

Who would have thought?