Remembering Dan.

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

I don't think he was able to "hear" the thanks anymore. Someone had convinced him that he was a "monster" and a "murderer" of many thousands of people through that service...and that even God couldn't love him because of this. He didn't feel like it was a compliment or a "praise". He no longer felt the honor that he obviously once did.

Sad to say, I kind of suspect that this belief (and bullying) came from people on Christianforum based on what he said and how active he appeared to be here both before and after his injuries. After the fact, his social life was primarily limited to online because of his disabilities.

yes, I came across him before.

I wished I bothered to read some of his history and known the state he was in. I would done more....

but yes, people on this site can be very quick to judge ( I made that mistake too)

but to call someone a monster?

 

[brinny]

I love those pictures, Elderado. One thing that I will never forget is Dan's infectious smile. Happiness really is contagious. You could be having the worst day ever and just being around him would make you feel better. I really like that you all have this thread here. I know it probably won't be posted on much longer b/c that's the way these things go, but for the time being it's nice to know that he's remembered for the good person he was.

I didn't know Dan, but you are right about his infectious smile.....it was like he was beaming.....

 

[brinny]

Thank you Eldorado for posting the pictures and sharing your memories of Dan.

 

[brinny]

I just came across this thread...i don't know if it's been posted somewhere already....this is a prayer request Dan posted July 11, 2011:

For the family of my hero

http://www.christianforums.com/t7576060/

 

[bobross]

Thank you Brinny

 

[bobross]

yes, I came across him before.

I wished I bothered to read some of his history and known the state he was in. I would done more....

but yes, people on this site can be very quick to judge ( I made that mistake too)

but to call someone a monster?

You and me both

 

[brinny]

I don't believe that Dan's heartcry was unheard by God. I believe God heard him loud and clear, and that Dan's arm was outstretched to God, and God grabbed him up. (((hug)))

http://www.christianforums.com/t7800612/

 

[MrsVanB]

Craig and I had the tough job this morning of telling our kids (12, 15, and 17) that Dan and his son had passed away. We never told them, which may or may not be the right thing to do, but with these wars have come so many deaths of people we care about, and I couldn't bear to tell them. But my 17 year old son (who had been good friends w/Danny) asked if we could get together with their family this summer for a camping trip. It's something we used to do quite often when Craig and Dan were stationed together. The boys always had so much fun fishing, swimming, mountain biking, throwing the football around and just being rowdy. Whenever we got home, they couldn't wait to do it again.

So when my son asked that this morning, we had no choice but to tell them. The dilemma I ran into was telling them the how's and why's. Of course they asked how both of them died, and it felt like there was really no good way to tell them what happened. Then came the "why's"...Why did they do what they did? Why both of them? Etc. It was a very hard thing for us, and I really don't know if we gave the "right" answers when all was said and done. What would you say if faced with that situation? Would it be best just to lie about how they died?

The kids are all in their rooms now. My 15 year old daughter hasn't stopped crying since we told her, and the boys are just sulking. I feel like doing the same thing b/c it really is sad to think things will never be the same. We will never be able to get together again with our families intact. I tried to tell them we could still do it with Katie and the boys, but they liked Dan and Danny so much. They were so much fun to be around. It's just a sad thing.

I know, though, that whatever sorrow we are feeling is infinitely magnified for Katie, Alex, and Trent. We just need to remember them, pray for them, and keep the memories alive. I got to talk to Katie for a short time a few days ago and she told me that she just didn't think anyone really cared. Which I know is so far from the truth. But I guess the way everything went during the last couple years, she just feels like she is alone with her grief and everyone has shunned her because of what happened between her and Dan. She needs to know people care. Please pray.

Sorry for the jumbled sentences. My mind is in a million different places right now. God bless you all for everything you have done here. <3

 

[brinny]

Oh God, have mercy......my heart goes out to Katie.....and Alex and Trent and to all of you. Suicide is in the realm of God's grace.....even great men of god were sooo beaten down they just wanted to die.....this ALL is in the realm of God's inexplicable grace. Praying for Katie, Alex, and Trent and ALL of you during this inexplicably raw time and "explanations" are not easy and mostly impossible to "explain". There is none, in this human realm. Father minister and intervene and strengthen and sustain each shattered heart, mind, and soul as only YOU can do. Moooooove and encircle each dear one and be the Lifter of each heart, in Jesus name, amen. ((((hug))))

 

[Inkachu]

Oh God, have mercy......my heart goes out to Katie.....and Alex and Trent and to all of you. Suicide is in the realm of God's grace.....even great men of god were sooo beaten down they just wanted to die.....this ALL is in the realm of God's inexplicable grace. Praying for Katie, Alex, and Trent and ALL of you during this inexplicably raw time and "explanations" are not easy and mostly impossible to "explain". There is none, in this human realm. Father minister and intervene and strengthen and sustain each shattered heart, mind, and soul as only YOU can do. Moooooove and encircle each dear one and be the Lifter of each heart, in Jesus name, amen. ((((hug))))

AMEN! You pray the most beautiful prayers, Brinny <3

 

[blackribbon]

I believe in telling kids the truth....so I would have told my kids about the suicides but I might have waited like you did until it actually became an issue. How I explained it would depend on their emotional place and their emotional maturity. I want my kids to always know that I tell the truth so that they don't have to worry about what is going unsaid. When my husband had cancer and they were surrounded by people saying all sorts of crazy things not realizing that small people had ears too, I looked them both in the eyes and said that "yes, Daddy has cancer and that can be bad...but he isn't dying right now. I will tell them when it is time to be worried. Until then, they shouldn't." When he had a seizure at the end and they came up to see him in the hospital for the last time, the conversation started with "remember when I said I would tell you if it was bad, well it is bad...." I think you did what is best for your kids.

I would suggest that if you can plan a small camping trip with Katie and the boys that even if it doesn't sound the "same" for your kids, that they realize that it is a gift to Dan's family. Something to remind them that even in their losses that somethings can still kind of be "normal". And tell them to remember those good times outloud on the trip...the tears will be there but they are okay....yes, Katie might cry but she is already thinking those thought and by talking about Dan, you are allowing her the freedom to cry and remember too. It often feels like the just have disappeared because nobody talks about them anymore.

 

[blackribbon]

I have chosen to talk pretty openly about suicide with my kids. I explain that people who commit suicide are often so sad or hurting that they don't see anyway that it is going to get better. Often it is just that their brains are ill, no different than the way our bodies get ill, and the illness doesn't allow them to see that life can get better or that the current problems are only temporary. I also use those conversations to discuss how to recognize sadness and despair in other people and to reach out or at least tell someone. These kind of conversations can also open up conversations where you will learn some very deep things about your children ... and the people in their lives.

 

[dayhiker]

MrsVan ... I think that would be a very good thing to co camping with Katie and the kids. New memories would help create their new life I'd think.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

MrsVan ... I think that would be a very good thing to co camping with Katie and the kids. New memories would help create their new life I'd think.

I agree. The family might be isolated, so this would be good for them.

 

[bobross]

I believe in telling kids the truth....so I would have told my kids about the suicides but I might have waited like you did until it actually became an issue. How I explained it would depend on their emotional place and their emotional maturity. I want my kids to always know that I tell the truth so that they don't have to worry about what is going unsaid. When my husband had cancer and they were surrounded by people saying all sorts of crazy things not realizing that small people had ears too, I looked them both in the eyes and said that "yes, Daddy has cancer and that can be bad...but he isn't dying right now. I will tell them when it is time to be worried. Until then, they shouldn't." When he had a seizure at the end and they came up to see him in the hospital for the last time, the conversation started with "remember when I said I would tell you if it was bad, well it is bad...." I think you did what is best for your kids.

I would suggest that if you can plan a small camping trip with Katie and the boys that even if it doesn't sound the "same" for your kids, that they realize that it is a gift to Dan's family. Something to remind them that even in their losses that somethings can still kind of be "normal". And tell them to remember those good times outloud on the trip...the tears will be there but they are okay....yes, Katie might cry but she is already thinking those thought and by talking about Dan, you are allowing her the freedom to cry and remember too. It often feels like the just have disappeared because nobody talks about them anymore.

Very well said, blackribbon. I couldn't agree more with this advice. I think a camping trip with them this summer might turn out to be just the kind of thing they need. It would be a good example of moving forward without forgetting those who have passed. Will be praying for you and your husband and kids as well. I know they have seen a lot of loss in their lives and it must weigh heavily on them.

 

[blackribbon]

To be honest, I don't see it as a "moving forward" but rather a link to their past...and a way to hang on to Dan with the memories they need to remember....the good days. And it is a link to the people who still love them and haven't forgotten Dan. There might be some happiness...but there will also be a lot of tears as his family absorbs that they will never make another memory of this type with him. But they also can bond together and move on taking Dan with them. Expect a lot of tears...and over stupid stuff...but that mean a memory surfaced and that is NEVER a bad thing. The tears are just an outward expression of the thoughts that are already going on inside. Helping them cry right now is every bit as important as eventually helping them laugh and smile again. But now is still the time for tears and will be for a while.

They won't be "moving forward" for a long time. Surviving is good enough for quite a while. And surviving is good enough.

 

[bobross]

To be honest, I don't see it as a "moving forward" but rather a link to their past...and a way to hang on to Dan with the memories they need to remember....the good days. And it is a link to the people who still love them and haven't forgotten Dan. There might be some happiness...but there will also be a lot of tears as his family absorbs that they will never make another memory of this type with him. But they also can bond together and move on taking Dan with them. Expect a lot of tears...and over stupid stuff...but that mean a memory surfaced and that is NEVER a bad thing. The tears are just an outward expression of the thoughts that are already going on inside. Helping them cry right now is every bit as important as eventually helping them laugh and smile again. But now is still the time for tears and will be for a while.

They won't be "moving forward" for a long time. Surviving is good enough for quite a while. And surviving is good enough.

You have a way of "explaining" things that just makes so much sense. I really appreciate that. It makes me feel better than just saying that they are moving on. When you love somebody so much I guess you never really move on.

I am praying for Katie because I think she is really beating herself up over this and maybe hearing it from the outside is well. Lord please help people to be kind and understanding when they interact with her. I also pray that Trent will be healed and discharged from the hospital very soon. It sounds as if he is suffering from a broken heart. And I pray for Alex, that he learns to deal with his emotions and let them out in a constructive way. I pray he had fun at his wrestling tournament this weekend and there were lots of people there to cheer him on. God please bless them all.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

Point well taken on that awful cliche, "moving on." Some people might mean well but some expressions are just too glib even when that is not the intention. Something that has bothered me in a similar vein is the expression, "get over." I think the words, "get through" are a bit better but really, any words are inadequate. Our culture is probably twisted way beyond any hope of redemption. I was just thinking how we have graphic depictions of death in our "entertainment" and yet any honest discussion about death - or even an acknowledgement of it, is difficult.

 

[blackribbon]

We don't value the importance of grieving either. We want everyone to be "happy" and "back to normal" as soon as possible....like that is even possible after losing someone so significant in your life. I have a friend who would just look people in the eyes and say "he wasn't a goldfish that I flushed down the toilet, he was father to my child and my best friend" Her husband died days after Princess Diana did and she notes that people who didn't know Diana are allowed to grieve longer for her than she was for her husband who died in their bed after a wicked battle with cancer.

There is healing and release in allowing someone to safely cry. And we so need to hear about them and talk about them...even if it is repetitious or boring to you. (Please note, we also talk about them in present tense because in our minds they are still our husbands and they will always be our children's daddy). If you talk and we cry, you didn't cause the tears ... you just opened the door for them to be released. They were already there.

 

[Elderado]

Craig and I had the tough job this morning of telling our kids (12, 15, and 17) that Dan and his son had passed away. We never told them, which may or may not be the right thing to do, but with these wars have come so many deaths of people we care about, and I couldn't bear to tell them. But my 17 year old son (who had been good friends w/Danny) asked if we could get together with their family this summer for a camping trip. It's something we used to do quite often when Craig and Dan were stationed together. The boys always had so much fun fishing, swimming, mountain biking, throwing the football around and just being rowdy. Whenever we got home, they couldn't wait to do it again.

So when my son asked that this morning, we had no choice but to tell them. The dilemma I ran into was telling them the how's and why's. Of course they asked how both of them died, and it felt like there was really no good way to tell them what happened. Then came the "why's"...Why did they do what they did? Why both of them? Etc. It was a very hard thing for us, and I really don't know if we gave the "right" answers when all was said and done. What would you say if faced with that situation? Would it be best just to lie about how they died?

The kids are all in their rooms now. My 15 year old daughter hasn't stopped crying since we told her, and the boys are just sulking. I feel like doing the same thing b/c it really is sad to think things will never be the same. We will never be able to get together again with our families intact. I tried to tell them we could still do it with Katie and the boys, but they liked Dan and Danny so much. They were so much fun to be around. It's just a sad thing.

I know, though, that whatever sorrow we are feeling is infinitely magnified for Katie, Alex, and Trent. We just need to remember them, pray for them, and keep the memories alive. I got to talk to Katie for a short time a few days ago and she told me that she just didn't think anyone really cared. Which I know is so far from the truth. But I guess the way everything went during the last couple years, she just feels like she is alone with her grief and everyone has shunned her because of what happened between her and Dan. She needs to know people care. Please pray.

Sorry for the jumbled sentences. My mind is in a million different places right now. God bless you all for everything you have done here. <3

I think you did the right thing too. I was straight up with my oldest son about it. He was 2 years older than Danny and he took it ok. He just couldn't believe it. I think suicide is just a very hard way to lose the ones you love. It leaves so many questions unanswered.


I think you should do the camping trip too. It would bring up a lot of good memories, and like blackribbon said it will bring out a lot of different emotions. But that's a good thing for the most part. I know with me the memories of the good times really help even if they might make me cry with nostalgia and sadness. Hang in there.


A few more pics of Dan I came across. It's good because I've been needing to classify all my pictures and put them in folders anyway.