Remain in me

[Sentry]

I am the true Vine and my Father is the Vinedresser. Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes. You are already made clean through the word I spoke to you. Remain in me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in the Vine. I am the Vine and you are the branches. He who remains in me and I in him is he that bears much fruit for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not remain in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers and the branches are gathered and thrown into the fire. (John 15:1-6).

Why was Jesus teaching his disciples to remain in him?

 

[ghs1994]

Because the Jews were about to be cut off to make room for the Gentiles when they went about crucifying Christ. His ministry was to the lost sheep of Israel.

What do you say?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I am the true Vine and my Father is the Vinedresser. Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes. You are already made clean through the word I spoke to you. Remain in me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in the Vine. I am the Vine and you are the branches. He who remains in me and I in him is he that bears much fruit for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not remain in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers and the branches are gathered and thrown into the fire. (John 15:1-6).

Why was Jesus teaching his disciples to remain in him?

thrown in to fire .. 1 cor 3:15 good works that are burned up do to poor motives yet still saved

john 15:16 Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you...

 

[Van]

Jesus trained or disciplied His chosen friends. John 15:1-6 presents part of that training in order to maximize the effectiveness of their ministry.

If you compare the fruitless branches of verse 2 with the fruitful branches of verse 5 two stark differences jump out. In verse two, the branches are "in Me" but in verse 5 the branches "abide" in Jesus. The second difference is that in verse 5, not only do the branches abide in Jesus, Jesus abides in the branches. Not so the fruitless branches of verse 2.

Which brings us to verse 4, where Jesus tells his disciples "Abide in Me and I in you." Unless a person abides in Jesus and Jesus abides in the person, they cannot bear fruit. So Jesus is saying establish the conditions necessary to be fruitful.

What does it mean to abide in Jesus, to make our abode in Jesus. How about being born again "in Christ?" And for Jesus to be in us but to be indwelt. Now we are able to be fruitful.

But if God places us in Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30) then how do we take action to "abide in" Jesus? From verse 9 we learn that we are to abide in His love. And from verse 10 we learn that if we keep His commandments, we will abide in His love. And what are His commandments? Why to love God with all our heart and all our soul and all our mind and to love others as we love ourselves. When we place are complete faith in Christ and in Christ alone, when we make Christ the focus of our devotion, then God will spiritually baptize us into Christ and we will abide in His love.

If you look at verses 12 and 13, you will see that Jesus raises the ante of demonstrating that total committment by being willing to lay down our life, to risk everything for our brothers and sisters in Christ. Such risk takers will bear much fruit because God will credit their faith as righteousness and place them in Christ.

 

[hlaltimus]

I am the true Vine and my Father is the Vinedresser. Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes. You are already made clean through the word I spoke to you. Remain in me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in the Vine. I am the Vine and you are the branches. He who remains in me and I in him is he that bears much fruit for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not remain in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers and the branches are gathered and thrown into the fire. (John 15:1-6).

Why was Jesus teaching his disciples to remain in him?

He said, "If a man does not remain in me," not, "If a disciple..." All disciples are men but not all men are disciples. If a person is a true disciple of Christ, then the first part of this passage will be taken to mean that he or she must abide in their fruitbearing position of union with Christ to maintain that fruit. If a person is an unbelieving man, he then was that "man" who did not abide in Christ in that he did not chose to believe in Christ when he had reached an age of accountability and then lost his coverage of involuntarily being covered by the atonement for children. All infants and children are covered by this gracious atonement, but this only makes them pardoned and not converted. If they at a date of reasonable maturity do not personally chose to believe in that atonement of which they have been receiving coverage, they will loose it altogether. This is the "man" who did not remain in the Vine. He didn't loose his reconciliatory salvation as a disciple because he never actually was one. It is a wonderful act of mercy on God's part, but He expects more from such a person in due time.

 

[Van]

The person "in Me" that does not abide "in Me" is a person who has been enlightened by the gospel of Christ, that has accepted the gospel but has not been born again because their belief is superficial, it does not penitrate to their rocky heart. John 3:16 says whoever believes in Him, and could be perhaps translated whoever believes "into" Him or in other words believes completely, holding nothing back, whether worldly possessions or relationships. These folks do not abide in their love of Christ, they do not keep the Holy Commandment to love God more than anything, they believe in Christ but are not willing to go all the way and forsake everything. They are the type that is unwilling to confess Christ before men because they fear they may lose the esteem of men. Which of course means they are fruitless from the get go.

 

[ghs1994]

I'm reminded of the parable of the sower since Van started talking about this. I think that parable speaks perfectly concerning the effect of God's Word in the life of those it has touched. Some have tasted, but not all have swallowed.

 

[Sentry]

He said, "If a man does not remain in me," not, "If a disciple..." All disciples are men but not all men are disciples.

It is to his disciples that he commands: "REMAIN IN ME." Jesus is telling these disciples what happens when a man does not remain in him.

If a person is a true disciple of Christ, then the first part of this passage will be taken to mean that he or she must abide in their fruitbearing position of union with Christ to maintain that fruit.

Or be cut off and thrown into the fire.

If a person is an unbelieving man, he then was that "man" who did not abide in Christ in that he did not chose to believe in Christ when he had reached an age of accountability and then lost his coverage of involuntarily being covered by the atonement for children. All infants and children are covered by this gracious atonement, but this only makes them pardoned and not converted. If they at a date of reasonable maturity do not personally chose to believe in that atonement of which they have been receiving coverage, they will loose it altogether. This is the "man" who did not remain in the Vine. He didn't loose his reconciliatory salvation as a disciple because he never actually was one. It is a wonderful act of mercy on God's part, but He expects more from such a person in due time.

He is speaking to his disicples and telling them that if they do not remain in him they will be cut off and thrown into the fire. Quite plain.

There is a reason you would tell someone to "remain in me." The possibility exists that they won't.

 

[Sentry]

The person "in Me" that does not abide "in Me" is a person who has been enlightened by the gospel of Christ, that has accepted the gospel but has not been born again because their belief is superficial, it does not penitrate to their rocky heart. John 3:16 says whoever believes in Him, and could be perhaps translated whoever believes "into" Him or in other words believes completely, holding nothing back, whether worldly possessions or relationships. These folks do not abide in their love of Christ, they do not keep the Holy Commandment to love God more than anything, they believe in Christ but are not willing to go all the way and forsake everything. They are the type that is unwilling to confess Christ before men because they fear they may lose the esteem of men. Which of course means they are fruitless from the get go.

Read it again:

1. He is speaking to disciples that are already made clean.

"You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you."

2. He instructs these same disciples to "Remain in me."

"Remain in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it remains in the vine, neither can you, unless you remain in me."


3. He explains to these same disciples what happens of one does not remain in him.

"If a man does not remain in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned."

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Read it again:

1. He is speaking to disciples that are already made clean.

"You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you."

2. He instructs these same disciples to "Remain in me."

"Remain in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it remains in the vine, neither can you, unless you remain in me."


3. He explains to these same disciples what happens of one does not remain in him.

"If a man does not remain in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned."

this is present tense salvation and how to use eternal life

as 1 cor 3:15 states there good works are burned up that lack prpper motivation yet still saved

 

[Sentry]

this is present tense salvation and how to use eternal life

as 1 cor 3:15 states there good works are burned up that lack prpper motivation yet still saved

So then there is no possibility that anyone will not remain in Christ? Yes or No.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

So then there is no possibility that anyone will not remain in Christ? Yes or No.

from there position in Christ ...No

On this earth .. yes

 

[Desolate Owl]

this is present tense salvation and how to use eternal life

as 1 cor 3:15 states there good works are burned up that lack prpper motivation yet still saved

I think it would be a stretch to say the analogies in John 15 and 1 Corinthians 3 are referring to the same thing.

The John passage says nothing about the branches escaping the fire, nor that the fire is to burn anything other than the branches themselves. It seems that it is the branches (being analagous to people) being burned. The image of throwing a branch into a fire presents an image of the destruction of that branch. It is a bad analogy if the branches actually make it out. Surely the disciples, nor anybody else who read this, would think that the branches might make it out of the fire (though there could be more cultural context to this than I am aware of).

The Corinthians passage only mentions the works being burned. The person's work is in the fire, not the person himself (although this could perhaps be implied).

 

[Van]

The idea that Jesus was telling His disciples to remain by their works in Christ does not take into account the rest of the sentence. How do they bring about "and I in you." No the only way the NT says for us to abide in Christ and Christ in us is to be born again and indwelt. Any other reading is not logically. Unless Jesus abides in us, we can do nothing.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I think it would be a stretch to say the analogies in John 15 and 1 Corinthians 3 are referring to the same thing.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whosoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

both group of John and 1 cor are believers...

The John passage says nothing about the branches escaping the fire, nor that the fire is to burn anything other than the branches themselves. It seems that it is the branches (being analagous to people) being burned. The image of throwing a branch into a fire presents an image of the destruction of that branch. It is a bad analogy if the branches actually make it out. Surely the disciples, nor anybody else who read this, would think that the branches might make it out of the fire (though there could be more cultural context to this than I am aware of).

So when we are saved by grace through faith ...eph 2:8

But grow in grace, and in the experiecial knowledge of our Lord...2 peter 3:18

where sin abounded, grace did much more abound ...romans 5:20

who called you by His grace Gal 1:6

NO works involved for salvation titus 3:5, 2 tim 1:9, eph 2:9, Romans 4:1-7

The Corinthians passage only mentions the works being burned. The person's work is in the fire, not the person himself (although this could perhaps be implied).

taking scripture our of context.....

 

[Van]

"So then there is no possibility that anyone will not remain in Christ? Yes or No."

Answer, Once in Christ by being born again and indwelt, the person is predestined to remain in Christ and inherit eternal life. Nothing can snatch us out of this condition. Once Actually Saved, Its Settled - OASIS.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

what is OASIS?

 

[nobdysfool]

what is OASIS?

He just told you, go back and read it again, and again, and again, until you see it...think acronyms....

 

[Edial]

JN 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

JN 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

V.2 Branch gets cuts off when there is no fruit. Once there is fruit, they get pruned - do not get cut off.

V.3 Disciples are "clean". 2511,12,13 means clean or pure. It is a VERY common word in the NT.
Many people were cleaned from sicknesses, leprosy.
Clean does not mean saved.
It means "clean", as from evil, illness, demons.

V.4 Non-born-again disciples were attached to Christ. Born-again was at the Pentecost. Many Christians are attached to Christ, but they are not born-again - check any Church.

The word of Christ is the sap that goes through the branches. (The branches can be ingrafted or otherwise).

So, if a branch gets the sap (word) it bears fruit and gets pruned and bears more fruit, on and on.
If the branch gets no sap (word) it doesn not bear fruit, dries up and is being cut off.
The getting of a sap depends on the vine (obviously) and if the branch receives the sap.

Assuming that the vine always supplies the sap, the branches are the ones that are resisting the sap.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[A Brother In Christ]

phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, That God which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.



1 thes 5:24 Faithful is He that calleth you,who also will do it.