Religiously inspired misbehaviour

[corvus_corax]

No, speech is oral, and exposing one's self is visual. Clearly not the same, nor necessary where smart people are concerned.

Flag burning is visual, and protected by the First Amendment.
So I guess a valedictorian burning a flag in protest against the USA while at the podium would be okay with you, huh?

 

[No Swansong]

How not? Any time I tossed on a marching band uniform, I was constantly reminded that the uniform represents the school, and any and all actions taken *in* uniform reflected the nature of the school.

Surely wearing a graduation robe while holding the status of "Valedictorian," *while* standing behind the podium at the most important event of the school, with all the faculty lined up behind you, is a *little* more impressive than buying funnel cake in a stiff wool straight-jacket.

Because she had no authority to speak for the institution. This has actually been upheld in a few different court cases. She was not an agent for the School. Nor was she representing them. It would be closer to say that she was representing the student body but even this isn't entirely correct and would most likely not stand up in a court of law either.

 

[No Swansong]

Flag burning is visual, and protected by the First Amendment.
So I guess a valedictorian burning a flag in protest against the USA while at the podium would be okay with you, huh?

Done safely I wouldn't object as long as the student owned the flag.

 

[MoonLancer]

i actually agree with you. If i were to burn a flag in my V speech that would be fine, so long as people had the right to criticize my action.

 

[Verv]

Speak for yourself. It doesn'T matter to me whether you replaced the references to Jesus with "Allah", "Buddha" or "Xemu" - it'd still be highly inappropriate. In another setting, in another tone, this little speech might even have been perfectly okay. But as it is, it just comes across as the ramblings of a fanatic suffering from a persecution complex.

The venue is inappropriate, you are right.

I just have always found how people look to Buddhism and Islam with an amount of interest to be very incredible -- they often have fewer redeeming qualities than Christendom.

 

[BlackSabb]

If a Buddhist or a Muslim berates education and speaks of inner peace and enlightenment as a higher value everyone would have acted like it was profound.

But since Christianity is familiar to you it becomes something worthy of casting contempt on.

I know if I were to spend 5 minutes lecturing my predominantly Chinese class on God it would be treated as 'interesting' and 'insightful' though there is only one other Christian there.

HOwever, I am sure if it were Americans it would be treated similarly to whatever happens in this thread.

The venue is wrong, of course, and I would have no interest in being proselytized by anyone at my graduation.

It is a shame that this ends up as ammunition against us.

Firstly, I recognise very well this type of religious believer, and taking an eductated guess I would say she is a Pentecostal/Charismatic. I've seen her type many times before, evident by the overly emotional speech and the dramatics at the end with the crying out etc. They do that a lot in those types of churches. All the sermons are highly emotional charged, with crying out, sobbing etc.

Secondly, she is being scrutinised not just because she preached. But because of the level of fanaticism, the hyped up emotion, the false assumed representation of all the faculty members, the length of preaching, the controversial subject matter (repenting for worshipping the intellectual mind) and the drama queen dramatic crying and falling down at the end.

I'm surprised she didn't break forth in "tongues" too and roll around on the floor and give altar calls. Such is the way she carried on.

 

[Archer93]

Because she had no authority to speak for the institution. This has actually been upheld in a few different court cases. She was not an agent for the School. Nor was she representing them. It would be closer to say that she was representing the student body but even this isn't entirely correct and would most likely not stand up in a court of law either.

We don't tend to have valedictorians in the UK- what is their role and function? What do they represent?
Thanks!

 

[OllieFranz]

We don't tend to have valedictorians in the UK- what is their role and function? What do they represent?
Thanks!

A valedictorian is a member of the graduating class (traditionally the student with the highest grade point average, although some schools have switched to other criteria, including direct voting by the members of the class) who is included in the rostrum of speakers as a voice for the graduates.

Since, legally, he or she is not an agent of the school, his or her speech is considered free and personal. In government-sponsored schools that do not schedule a benediction (rightly or wrongly concluding that to do so would illegally entangle the school in Church-State issues), many conservative Christian legal organizations have been encouraging valedictorians to include a benediction in their speeches as "student-led prayer."

Most professional chaplains know the difference between a short, inoffensive benediction and an over-the-top sermon disguised as a prayer. Many devout young people egged on by their families, their pastors, and the legal organizations, do not.

 

[No Swansong]

A valedictorian is a member of the graduating class (traditionally the student with the highest grade point average, although some schools have switched to other criteria, including direct voting by the members of the class) who is included in the rostrum of speakers as a voice for the graduates.

Since, legally, he or she is not an agent of the school, his or her speech is considered free and personal. In government-sponsored schools that do not schedule a benediction (rightly or wrongly concluding that to do so would illegally entangle the school in Church-State issues), many conservative Christian legal organizations have been encouraging valedictorians to include a benediction in their speeches as "student-led prayer."

Most professional chaplains know the difference between a short, inoffensive benediction and an over-the-top sermon disguised as a prayer. Many devout young people egged on by their families, their pastors, and the legal organizations, do not.

Are you implying that an intelligent, highly functional young woman could not have made this decision without being "egged on" by others?

 

[No Swansong]

We don't tend to have valedictorians in the UK- what is their role and function? What do they represent?
Thanks!

Ollie covered it pretty well.

 

[No Swansong]

Firstly, I recognise very well this type of religious believer, and taking an eductated guess I would say she is a Pentecostal/Charismatic. I've seen her type many times before, evident by the overly emotional speech and the dramatics at the end with the crying out etc. They do that a lot in those types of churches. All the sermons are highly emotional charged, with crying out, sobbing etc.

Secondly, she is being scrutinised not just because she preached. But because of the level of fanaticism, the hyped up emotion, the false assumed representation of all the faculty members, the length of preaching, the controversial subject matter (repenting for worshipping the intellectual mind) and the drama queen dramatic crying and falling down at the end.

I'm surprised she didn't break forth in "tongues" too and roll around on the floor and give altar calls. Such is the way she carried on.

I don't understand your point my friend. How have you been by the way?

 

[OllieFranz]

Are you implying that an intelligent, highly functional young woman could not have made this decision without being "egged on" by others?

No, but the nature of the prayer is evidence that they clearly influenced her decision in this instance. If there weren't "test cases" being urged by the legal organizations, she might not have demanded the "right" to give a benediction. If she belonged to a less (for lack of a better word) "dramatic" church, her prayer would not have been so over-the-top. And there is no way she did not rehearse her speech, including the prayer, in front of her family.

 

[LittleNipper]

Flag burning is visual, and protected by the First Amendment.
So I guess a valedictorian burning a flag in protest against the USA while at the podium would be okay with you, huh?

I believe flag burning might cause a fire and harm innocent people. But speaking out against US activities has already been done on college campuses across America at one time or another. So I cannot imagine speaking out against the sins of the people attending such places is any less appropriate...

 

[LittleNipper]

that she is crazy and i don't agree with what she says?

But you shouldn't be vular if you have a point to make or people might just believe you to be an uneducated creep. And we don't want that.

 

[LittleNipper]

We don't tend to have valedictorians in the UK- what is their role and function? What do they represent?
Thanks!

The most likely to succeed.

 

[atomweaver]

Well, perhaps it's just my European sensibilities - we're just not used to such levels of religious fanatism; it looks almost like a psychological condition to us.

You know, at times the US/EU religious dynamic its almost like a biological/evolution experiment; the EU expels a large fragment of its religious fanatics to a New World in which those people have a supreme (military) competitive advantage over the native species. They flourish over time to out-compete the locals in filling the geography, and we're now at the point where the geographic isolation of the two populations (US/EU) is no longer present... I wonder what will happen next?

 

[quatona]

I just have always found how people look to Buddhism and Islam with an amount of interest to be very incredible -- they often have fewer redeeming qualities than Christendom.

I know a lot of Buddhist persons, and from what I can tell Buddhism typically doesn´t condemn but rather embrace the human intellect. Furthermore they abstain from proselytizing. Thus, it´s highly unlikely you´ll find a Buddhist behaving like this girl, and that´s one thing I value about Buddhism.
As for Islam, I don´t find it any more interesting than Christianity.

 

[LittleNipper]

Actually my friend she is not a representative of the school nor is her benediction considered representative of the School.

Well, that runs both ways. The school obviously doesn't represent her nor her faith.

 

[LittleNipper]

I know a lot of Buddhist persons, and from what I can tell Buddhism typically doesn´t condemn but rather embrace the human intellect. Furthermore they abstain from proselytizing. Thus, it´s highly unlikely you´ll find a Buddhist behaving like this girl, and that´s one thing I value about Buddhism.
As for Islam, I don´t find it any more interesting than Christianity.

Their statues do tend to be fat.

 

[quatona]

There statues do tend to be fat.

On face value this looks like a post that neither addresses the post that it quotes nor anything that´s being discussed in this thread at all, but I´m sure there´s some very profound message behind your statement which I simply don´t get.