Religious Spirits

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have just finished reading a book of articles compiled by C. Peter Wagner about dealing with religious spirits. It was a real eye opener.

It gives a lot of good information about how to distinguish between the Holy Spirit and demonic religious spirits that operate in many of our churches. Some of the counterfeits are so close to the genuine, that it sometimes takes the gift of discerning of spirits to see the difference.

Did you know that religious spirits can disguise themselves very effectively in even Pentecostal and Charismatic environments to trick people into believing that it is the Holy Spirit operating, when in fact it is a Pentecostal or Charismatic demon operating instead?

Now, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Pentecostalism or the Charismatic are demonic. What I am saying is that a demonic religious spirit can put on the appearance of being a believable Pentecostal or Charismatic influence to trick people into thinking they are having an experience in the Holy Spirit when in fact it is a demon that is influencing them.

This is really scary, and it shows that we have to very carefully test every spirit that seeks to influence us.

One of the articles in the book gives a very good list of how religious spirits work, and when you see that, then the differences between the counterfeit and the genuine are very obvious.

The scary part is that two people can be seen dancing, falling over in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, singing loudly, shouting praises, waving flags in services, and one is genuine and the other is influenced by a religious spirit. The casual observer would find it hard to know the difference, but I reckon after reading Dr Wagner's book, we can be better at seeing the true from the false.

It's easy to see the devil when he appears with horns and pitchfork. But when he appears as an angel of light, it takes someone who is in close fellowship with God to recognise him.

 

[HoneyComb Son]

I agree..as a victim of this first hand..i can say it can really hurt someone very deep..because it has to deal with God..the very being of life....

when I read this I wanted to reply because I came here to post something about this..all I can say is..we need to be careful..Ive seen spirits pretend to be God saying "I love you" sounded like jesus..sounded sympathatic..but caused alot of hurt and pain....

 

[pinkputter]

I second the victim thing. As humans trust is an important factor in relationships. Unfortunately doing that without discernment can be a slippery slope. I was a victim of one of the members claiming I had stolen their identity, after I had been nothing but a tride and true friend, and in fact she was the one who treated me bad. I knew not to trust this girl. I sensed some insecurity, but we are to let others who claim Christ grow at their own pace, right? I did this, and ended up getting burned. Her grandfather is elder at our church and gave the situation a blind eye to the whole thing. God was with me, though. I was being attacked via text message when this happened, and He gave me words to say to her and I have no regret, and she will have to live with consequences. She disguised herself very well. Vivacious girl very active in church. Kind of the social director of the crew, yet when it came down to it it, her true colors were shown and her spirit tested. I think everyone should know going to church isn't always about you but about helping others find Jesus if they haven't already. Unfortunately with that girl our ties were severed and the damage was done. I know a LOT better in the future.

 

[tturt]

When we've been wronged, forgiving can be difficult but still necessary. I KNOW it's not easy but we can't afford not to. I've been working on this one for the last few days.

What was the book of the book?

Yes, testing the spirits is vital. The Jezebel spirit can be on believers who are male too. Regarding discerning of spirits, we need to get the information from Yahweh. Since all the other gifts work directly from Him, it's important that this one functions that way, also. Otherwise, it's us. Also, let's remember that Eph 6:12"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

 

[mrmccormo]

I have seen this manifest many, many times. It is why I believe prayer and charity are of far more importance than public displays of the Holy Spirit's gifts.

 

[tturt]

Sorry there were plenty of manifestations in The Word.

Here's one - I Know I've seen the posts about laughter in church until ... But...

Earlier listening to a sermon, the pastor said he had said something that came out wrong and everyone laughed. Then every time he opened his mouth to say something else, it came out wrong and the congregation continued to laugh. It lasted about 5 - 10 min. Later he said everyone felt so good and refreshed.

It's still laughing. Still could have been Yahweh ordained. The end result was His people felt better and refreshed.

 

[gratefulgrace]

When we've been wronged, forgiving can be difficult but still necessary. I KNOW it's not easy but we can't afford not to. I've been working on this one for the last few days.

What was the book of the book?

Yes, testing the spirits is vital. The Jezebel spirit can be on believers who are male too. Regarding discerning of spirits, we need to get the information from Yahweh. Since all the other gifts work directly from Him, it's important that this one functions that way, also. Otherwise, it's us. Also, let's remember that Eph 6:12"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

I hear from time to time about this "Jezebel" spirit but I have never had anyone able to tell me what it is, well they have tried to but often the explanations vary from person to person. Also where in the Bible does it talk about a Jezebel spirit.

 

[AudioArtist]

Everyone concentrates on how these spirits operate in charismatic settings - and I agree that they can, if people aren't asking the Father for the good gift of the Holy Spirit and the object of worship isn't Christ.

But what of churches that reject the ministry of the Holy Spirit and His reviving movements altogether? Instead of flagging up charismatic/pentecostal settings all the time and making people more fearful of the Devil and deception than trusting in the Giver of good gifts - we should be encouraging people to "eagerly desire" the spiritual gifts and encouraging people to be bold and childlike in their expectation for God to move in power. IMHO.

From what I can discern, there are very many more 'religious spirits' in operation in the formal, cold, anti-charismatic churches I have come into contact with than all the charismatic churches I have been to (in my short life.)

 

[gratefulgrace]

Everyone concentrates on how these spirits operate in charismatic settings - and I agree that they can, if people aren't asking the Father for the good gift of the Holy Spirit and the object of worship isn't Christ.

But what of churches that reject the ministry of the Holy Spirit and His reviving movements altogether? Instead of flagging up charismatic/pentecostal settings all the time and making people more fearful of the Devil and deception than trusting in the Giver of good gifts - we should be encouraging people to "eagerly desire" the spiritual gifts and encouraging people to be bold and childlike in their expectation for God to move in power. IMHO.

From what I can discern, there are very many more 'religious spirits' in operation in the formal, cold, anti-charismatic churches I have come into contact with than all the charismatic churches I have been to (in my short life.)

AMEN AND AMEN

 

[mrmccormo]

From what I can discern, there are very many more 'religious spirits' in operation in the formal, cold, anti-charismatic churches I have come into contact with than all the charismatic churches I have been to (in my short life.)

The OP makes it sound as though you can be praying in tongues, manifesting the gift of prophecy, and still be under a religious spirit. I happen to agree with that conclusion, btw. What makes "formal, cold anti-charismatic" churches any more prone to religious spirits than charismatic ones? Instead of tradition and legalism, charismatic churches can adopt their own form of legalism which consists of intense pressure to "get the GIFTS" and a sort of insider's club for those who experience miraculous things.

 

[Ajax 777]

Instead of tradition and legalism, charismatic churches can adopt their own form of legalism which consists of intense pressure to "get the GIFTS" and a sort of insider's club for those who experience miraculous things.

The word of God, rightly divided.

I can personally attest to the fact this sort of thing can blind, delude, and distract one
from sober and sufficient self-examination, and it can also be a doorway to real apostasy.

IOW, Prime Grade bacon-wrapped Filet Mignon to unclean spirits.

 

[~RENEE~]

I grew up Pentecostal Holiness yeah I know. But thank God I am free free free from that religious bondage been washed in the blood of Jesus I been born agaaaiiinnnn.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When we've been wronged, forgiving can be difficult but still necessary. I KNOW it's not easy but we can't afford not to. I've been working on this one for the last few days.

What was the book of the book?

The Title of the Book is Freedom From The Religious Spirit, by C Peter Wagner.

I see that there are some good sites where one can obtain second hand copies of good Christian books. Perhaps that is one way you can get a good inexpensive copy.

 

[gratefulgrace]

I hear from time to time about this "Jezebel" spirit but I have never had anyone able to tell me what it is, well they have tried to but often the explanations vary from person to person. Also where in the Bible does it talk about a Jezebel spirit.

I am posting this again as I really want to know about this as it is one of the most talked about spirits in the churches today it seems. Anyone care to help me with this, you can PM me if you like as I do not want to disrupt the thread although I do not think the question is off topic myself. Thanks gg

 

[Ajax 777]

I am posting this again as I really want to know about this as it is one of the most talked about spirits in the churches today it seems. Anyone care to help me with this, you can PM me if you like as I do not want to disrupt the thread although I do not think the question is off topic myself. Thanks gg

This is one of those questions which will get you as many replies as the people you ask.

Long story short, I consider it to be the product of hideously poor hermeneutics.

There is a passage in the seven letters to the seven churches in the book of Revelation wherein the Lord indicts the church of Thyatira as "tolerating that woman Jezebel." From this, many Charismaniacal teachers have twisted the passage to mean that there are "Jezebel spirits" and such the like according to what the modern Western mindset deems "the error of Jezebel"...which, oddly enough, wasn't the actual error of Jezebel. This same passage goes on to explain that Jezebel was charged with teaching the children of Israel to eat foods sacrificed to idols (i.e., Baal worship) and to commit acts of immorality. Somehow, though, people have twisted this to mean people who are controlling, manipulative, and seek to usurp the authority from those upon whom God has bestowed it and to whom He also entrusted it so they can set up their own thrones.

I could keep you here all week telling you all about the vast many different ones I have heard...

But there is nothing, NOTHING, ANYWHERE WHATSOEVER in Scripture to indicate the existence of such a thing as a "Jezebel spirit."

These same people who, IMO, butcher the Book of Revelation ought to skip to the end and read the warning against adding to its words of prophecy.

I can all but guarantee you someone will come in here and tell you I am wrong, and that there are such things as Jezebel spirits. But ask them to prove it by true exegetical exposition rather than their own personal eisegeses, and you'll likely see the true face of the matter.

Either way, keep your eyes open and your heart guarded.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Thank you for your response Ajax.

 

[Simon Peter]

I have just finished reading a book of articles compiled by C. Peter Wagner about dealing with religious spirits. It was a real eye opener.

It gives a lot of good information about how to distinguish between the Holy Spirit and demonic religious spirits that operate in many of our churches. Some of the counterfeits are so close to the genuine, that it sometimes takes the gift of discerning of spirits to see the difference.

Did you know that religious spirits can disguise themselves very effectively in even Pentecostal and Charismatic environments to trick people into believing that it is the Holy Spirit operating, when in fact it is a Pentecostal or Charismatic demon operating instead?

...

The scary part is that two people can be seen dancing, falling over in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, singing loudly, shouting praises, waving flags in services, and one is genuine and the other is influenced by a religious spirit. The casual observer would find it hard to know the difference, but I reckon after reading Dr Wagner's book, we can be better at seeing the true from the false.

It's easy to see the devil when he appears with horns and pitchfork. But when he appears as an angel of light, it takes someone who is in close fellowship with God to recognise him.

Come on Oscarr, C. Peter Wagner...really?

This is the same guy who failed to recognise a wolf in a child's sheep costume, namely Todd Bentley!

Wagner commissioned Bentley on stage at the height of the 'Lakeland revival', showering him with praise and prophecy, meanwhile Bentley was in adulterous relationship, getting drunk, and lying about a lot of things. Within a week or so, it all fell apart and Bentley was exposed as a sham.

If Wagner failed to even see through Bentley - that anyone with a fleas worth of discernment could see through - why on earth should I trust him with a book on discernment?

peace,
Simon

 

[Ajax 777]

Come on Oscarr, C. Peter Wagner...really?

This is the same guy who failed to recognise a wolf in a child's sheep costume, namely Todd Bentley!

Wagner commissioned Bentley on stage at the height of the 'Lakeland revival', showering him with praise and prophecy, meanwhile Bentley was in adulterous relationship, getting drunk, and lying about a lot of things. Within a week or so, it all fell apart and Bentley was exposed as a sham.

If Wagner failed to even see through Bentley - that anyone with a fleas worth of discernment could see through - why on earth should I trust him with a book on discernment?

peace,
Simon

Well said, Simon!

 

[tturt]

When any one gets perfect, please let the rest of us know.

 

[Simon Peter]

When any one gets perfect, please let the rest of us know.

I'm not sure what you are saying?

Are you saying we should overlook the sin of ministers who commit adultery, get drunk and lie?

Or are you saying Wagner's discernment is imperfect, and we should overlook the fact that he was completely blind and totally lacking in discernment regarding one of the most obvious wolves to ever stand in an American pulpit?

Or perhaps you meant something else?

Regardless, I would still like an answer to my question:

If Wagner failed to even see through Bentley - that anyone with a fleas worth of discernment could see through - why on earth should I trust him with a book on discernment?



peace,
Simon