Religions you have rejected

[cloudyday2]

have you been to 4channel.org/x ? it's the funniest thing because there is both paranormal stuff but also a lot of spiritual people of various kinds. it's pretty funny but you can find some nice things there sometimes.

Thanks, I will check it out. I've skimmed a few posts, and it does seem like good entertainment at least.

 

[cloudyday2]

I don't know if it was the blue pill or the red pill, but I wish I could get my faith back in something even if it isn't true. People with successful and happy lives probably can manage as atheists, but other people (like me) need some sort of religious encouragement. But if everything is meaningless and futile then I suppose it doesn't matter whether I am cynical or not.

 

[ananda]

I think that once you reach what you seek you will see that everything was speaking about the same thing.

I doubt it ... but I won't fully know until I'm there!

 

[Robban]

I don't know if it was the blue pill or the red pill, but I wish I could get my faith back in something even if it isn't true. People with successful and happy lives probably can manage as atheists, but other people (like me) need some sort of religious encouragement. But if everything is meaningless and futile then I suppose it doesn't matter whether I am cynical or not.

Cheer up cloudy, according to Mary Poppins,
all things are possible, even the impossible.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't know if it was the blue pill or the red pill, but I wish I could get my faith back in something even if it isn't true. People with successful and happy lives probably can manage as atheists, but other people (like me) need some sort of religious encouragement. But if everything is meaningless and futile then I suppose it doesn't matter whether I am cynical or not.

Cynicism is not necessarily a healthy thing, period. I've never seen anybody with a long life that was particularly cynical. They know now that having a sense of connection and trust in other people actually helps our immune systems and we age more slowly. Stress is not good, we were never made to worry all the time, it's not natural.

 

[cloudyday2]

Cynicism is not necessarily a healthy thing, period. I've never seen anybody with a long life that was particularly cynical. They know now that having a sense of connection and trust in other people actually helps our immune systems and we age more slowly. Stress is not good, we were never made to worry all the time, it's not natural.

Yep, imagine if all the squirrels became cynical and just laid around complaining about their lives. "Gather nuts so I can eat them and survive another winter so I can gather more nuts? I don't even like eating nuts. "

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I have implicitly rejected all religions except Christianity but I would explicitly reject Islam and Judaism. Both for different reasons.

Islam proposes an interesting challenge in that it's rise and brutal conquest has to make a Christian who knows some history ask why God allowed it dominate at least a fourth of the world. Ultimately I reject it for it being unable to deal with the historical Jesus. The statements the Quran makes about Jesus and the early Christians literally make no sense if Islam were true. The Quranic author didn't understand the New Testament or much in the way of what the early Christians believed or did.

Judaism poses a problem for Christianity in that Christianity arose out of a Jewish context, inherited the same books and touts that Jesus is the Messiah the Jews expect. I believe in the latter statement so I reject Judaism.

I did look into Bahai for a time and felt their universalism self-contradicts and implode upon itself. Namely I grew frustrated with the dishonesty of Bahai believers when talking to them. To state, as they do, that all religions are true and are revealed of God, yet to reject what those religions say is dishonest. If your opponent is wrong, say they are wrong, don't be a coward.

 

[cloudyday2]

I have implicitly rejected all religions except Christianity but I would explicitly reject Islam and Judaism. Both for different reasons.

Islam proposes an interesting challenge in that it's rise and brutal conquest has to make a Christian who knows some history ask why God allowed it dominate at least a fourth of the world. Ultimately I reject it for it being unable to deal with the historical Jesus. The statements the Quran makes about Jesus and the early Christians literally make no sense if Islam were true. The Quranic author didn't understand the New Testament or much in the way of what the early Christians believed or did.

Judaism poses a problem for Christianity in that Christianity arose out of a Jewish context, inherited the same books and touts that Jesus is the Messiah the Jews expect. I believe in the latter statement so I reject Judaism.

I did look into Bahai for a time and felt their universalism self-contradicts and implode upon itself. Namely I grew frustrated with the dishonesty of Bahai believers when talking to them. To state, as they do, that all religions are true and are revealed of God, yet to reject what those religions say is dishonest. If your opponent is wrong, say they are wrong, don't be a coward.

Thanks, Ignatius, this is the kind of response that helps me, but I am hoping you can explain in more detail if you have time.

I have been trying to find some way to believe in Christianity the past few years, because that would be ideal. My family and coworkers are mostly Christians, and I grew up as a Christian, so it would be a lot easier to be a Christian than to be some other religion. Atheism doesn't offer a meaning for life, and a depressed person like me needs an ultimate meaning and purpose (either that or they need a cure for depression LOL). Unfortunately, I can't overcome what I see as the mundane historical origins of Judaism and Christianity that contradict their claims to being revelations of God.

I wonder if your rejections of Islam, Judaism, and Baha'i would work if you were not already a committed Christian? If you were approaching the problem as an agnostic would you still have reasons to reject those religions? Also, how do you feel about Buddhism, Hinduism, witchcraft. Those all seem like more exploratory religions (i.e. where the believer must find the answers through experiments - especially witchcraft, New Age, and those eclectic religions).

 

[Gregory95]

I have been thinking about alternatives to Christianity and atheism. In particular I have been wondering about Hinduism, Buddhism, or some sort of freelance investigation of magic, psi, and paranormal.

I imagine there are people here who have followed these paths and ultimately rejected them, and I was hoping you might share your experiences and reasons. I don't know very much about religion except for Christianity. I have been hoping to find some way to think about Christianity so that I can believe in it, but I am getting discouraged with that path. Atheism is fine except that I have a lot of experiences that suggest a supernatural dimension to reality.

In my youth satanism thrilled me as hate is all i lived by

i read some of the Quran and it started to sway me but in the end it prompted up man to be somthing being a evil wicked man seeking truth at this point it became obvious this is false doctrine

The Bible the words of Christ is the only truth i have found in this world that is without man making himself what he is not

 

[shivascrush]

I have been thinking about alternatives to Christianity and atheism. In particular I have been wondering about Hinduism, Buddhism, or some sort of freelance investigation of magic, psi, and paranormal.

I imagine there are people here who have followed these paths and ultimately rejected them, and I was hoping you might share your experiences and reasons. I don't know very much about religion except for Christianity. I have been hoping to find some way to think about Christianity so that I can believe in it, but I am getting discouraged with that path. Atheism is fine except that I have a lot of experiences that suggest a supernatural dimension to reality.

I have been thinking about alternatives to Christianity and atheism. In particular I have been wondering about Hinduism, Buddhism, or some sort of freelance investigation of magic, psi, and paranormal.

I imagine there are people here who have followed these paths and ultimately rejected them, and I was hoping you might share your experiences and reasons. I don't know very much about religion except for Christianity. I have been hoping to find some way to think about Christianity so that I can believe in it, but I am getting discouraged with that path. Atheism is fine except that I have a lot of experiences that suggest a supernatural dimension to reality.

No one knows how everything came to be, and those who tell you they do know even less.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Thanks, Ignatius, this is the kind of response that helps me, but I am hoping you can explain in more detail if you have time.

I have been trying to find some way to believe in Christianity the past few years, because that would be ideal. My family and coworkers are mostly Christians, and I grew up as a Christian, so it would be a lot easier to be a Christian than to be some other religion. Atheism doesn't offer a meaning for life, and a depressed person like me needs an ultimate meaning and purpose (either that or they need a cure for depression LOL). Unfortunately, I can't overcome what I see as the mundane historical origins of Judaism and Christianity that contradict their claims to being revelations of God.

I wonder if your rejections of Islam, Judaism, and Baha'i would work if you were not already a committed Christian? If you were approaching the problem as an agnostic would you still have reasons to reject those religions? Also, how do you feel about Buddhism, Hinduism, witchcraft. Those all seem like more exploratory religions (i.e. where the believer must find the answers through experiments - especially witchcraft, New Age, and those eclectic religions).

A lot of questions.

I think my rejections of Islam and Bahai hold up on their own. Judaism might need another reason to reject, like God being mostly or exclusively concerned with the Jews and not the rest of the gentile world. Why does it then matter in the Jewish worldview that anyone believe in this God of Israel? He has only ever dealt with the Jews and no one else. Islam might be criticized more for it's violent mandate to subjugate the whole world under Shariah. Bahai can be criticized for being self-contradictory or dishonest to a level of absurdity (They will tell you Christianity is true and then proceed to undermine the claim by redefining every element within Christianity to match their theology).

Those other religions I don't really care about. Hinduism is entirely localized to India and is in so many forms that it doesn't make sense to speak of it as one religion but hundreds if not thousands. Hare Krishna presents a challenge because it wants to make Krishna on the level of Christ as tries to evangelize the message of Krishna. New Age or Neo Paganism or witch craft on the surface of it seems like larping to me which I cannot take seriously. None of them believe like real ancient pagans did that their gods were satisfied with sacrifices, public worship of the gods or that their gods dwelled in idols or sacred groves which you cannot disturb. There's more meat in Plato and Aristotle than there is in the entirety of the pagan legacy of worship and that's why we admire the former than the latter.

 

[awitch]

New Age or Neo Paganism or witch craft on the surface of it seems like larping to me which I cannot take seriously.

It can certainly seem that way. On the surface.
Much of what you see today is either "fluffy bunny" people trying to reenact what they've seen in movies, tongue-in-cheek, or symbolic.

None of them believe like real ancient pagans did that their gods were satisfied with sacrifices, public worship of the gods or that their gods dwelled in idols or sacred groves which you cannot disturb.

We know much more about our natural world today than we did back then. The religion adapts to a dynamic world. Also, the age of religion does not make it more credible. Today, we sacrifice our time, money or effort. While we know there probably isn't a nature spirit hanging out in the lake or forest, we still actively work to protect them because they are an important part of the ecosystem.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

We know much more about our natural world today than we did back then. The religion adapts to a dynamic world. Also, the age of religion does not make it more credible. Today, we sacrifice our time, money or effort. While we know there probably isn't a nature spirit hanging out in the lake or forest, we still actively work to protect them because they are an important part of the ecosystem.

Then your modern secularists with an affinity for nature, not pagans.

 

[awitch]

Then your modern secularists with an affinity for nature, not pagans.

No, I'm still a hard polytheist (believing in multiple, unique deities). But we think about gods differently today. For example, we have a good grasp on how weather works these days, so we know sacrificing animals isn't going to make it rain (and it would be inhumane anyway). We link nature with our religion, though one certainly doesn't have to.

 

[cloudyday2]

New Age or Neo Paganism or witch craft on the surface of it seems like larping to me which I cannot take seriously. None of them believe like real ancient pagans did that their gods were satisfied with sacrifices, public worship of the gods or that their gods dwelled in idols or sacred groves which you cannot disturb. There's more meat in Plato and Aristotle than there is in the entirety of the pagan legacy of worship and that's why we admire the former than the latter.

You seem to view religion much like the Romans who rejected Christianity because it was not ancient. Any legitimate religion in their eyes needed to originate centuries earlier. New religions were viewed with suspicion as potentially seditious conspiracies (like some view Freemasonry today).

Why should a person believe something simply because generations of dead people have believed? Does that truly lend credibility to a belief? Why not roll-up our own sleeves and test these beliefs? That is what I find appealing about the more loosely defined religions like witchcraft, occult, paganism, new age, and Hinduism. You are absolutely correct by the way that Hinduism is many religions and tends to be tightly-coupled to Indian cultural traditions, but it is also very rich in variety and tolerance, and this makes it an appealing option for people who want to explore IMO.

Also, there is a lot of variety in beliefs among people who label as witches, pagans, occult, etc. I have been wondering about joining a witchcraft forum to run my ideas past some people who believe and practice magic. I don't want to use magic (partly because I know it takes effort and I am lazy and skeptical), but I have seen some weird things that I wish I understood. As an example, I seem to often see a walking stick bug as a signal that something is about to happen spiritually. I'm not a spiritually-inclined person, but I wonder if I have some natural sensitivity to spiritual things that I should be exploring and trying to understand. Maybe it is all hallucinations and delusions though.

 

[Albion]

Why not roll-up our own sleeves and test these beliefs? That is what I find appealing about the more loosely defined religions like witchcraft, occult, paganism, new age....

Also, there is a lot of variety in beliefs among people who label as witches, pagans, occult, etc. I have been wondering about joining a witchcraft forum to run my ideas past some people who believe and practice magic.

I get the point, but do not assume that modern day paganism, witchcraft, and the like is essentially the same as those movements from earlier history.

There are many adherents or proponents who are simply posers or converts to a very simplified and sanitized version of the historic movement, whichever one it was. If you do get into a deeper investigation of some of these contemporary associations, be sure you are dealing with more than people who "read up" on something and then decided to replicate the most obvious look and feel of it all.

 

[cloudyday2]

I get the point, but do not assume that modern day paganism, witchcraft, and the like is essentially the same as those movements from earlier history.

There are many adherents or proponents who are simply posers or converts to a very simplified and sanitized version of the historic movement, whichever one it was. If you do get into a deeper investigation of some of these contemporary associations, be sure you are dealing with more than people who "read up" on something and then decided to replicate the most obvious look and feel of it all.

One of my ideas is that rituals need to be contemporary rather than traditional, because their purpose is to affect the psychological state of the participants to facilitate achievement of the goal. That goal might be an experience of God or casting a spell or healing a person. Whether there is anything to the ritual besides the placebo effect is a question I would like to explore. ... But anyway, an ancient ritual is probably a worthless ritual unless it is part of that's person childhood indoctrination. The best rituals are probably the rituals that are customized to a person's psychology.

This is kind of a disturbing example, but a person on another forum was having trouble getting over the loss of her beloved dog. She was interested in necromancy, so she performed a ritual to help. The ritual involved exhuming and cremating her dog's body, and she said that was particularly upsetting to her, but apparently it helped her. Obviously that ritual deeply shook-up her psyche, but that was necessary so that when her psyche resettled she was healed emotionally.

 

[Romans 8]

I don't know if it was the blue pill or the red pill, but I wish I could get my faith back in something even if it isn't true. People with successful and happy lives probably can manage as atheists, but other people (like me) need some sort of religious encouragement. But if everything is meaningless and futile then I suppose it doesn't matter whether I am cynical or not.

Personally, I don't think an atheistic view is healthy in any way, shape, or form. We were created with a desire, a longing to be reconciled with our creator. Most of us feel a deep need of fellowship, love, companionship etc and we look for that in a partner. But after finding a partner, we realize that a person cannot fulfill us because our needs are Spiritual and much deeper.

 

[cloudyday2]

Personally, I don't think an atheistic view is healthy in any way, shape, or form. We were created with a desire, a longing to be reconciled with our creator. Most of us feel a deep need of fellowship, love, companionship etc and we look for that in a partner. But after finding a partner, we realize that a person cannot fulfill us because our needs are Spiritual and much deeper.

I think about what Pontius Pilate said on the original Good Friday - "what is truth?". I take the question to be asking not only what IS truth but also what IS THE VALUE of truth.
- An atheist might argue that truth is objective facts and that truth should be accepted regardless of its effect on people.
- Another person might think that an idea that benefits the individual or the group should be accepted regardless of its factuality. About halfway through college I became extremely depressed and could barely function, but I heard that Oracle would hire ANYBODY that graduated from certain universities including mine. Believing that LIE gave me the hope I needed to graduate. So "what is truth?"

 

[cloudyday2]

Another thing is the idea of self-induced psychosis in occultism and similar practices. Some psychologists think that psychosis is actually the brain's way to heal itself - like a Windows computer downloading updates from Microsoft. The changes required are so radical that the brain must be disassembled and reassembled while on-line. This makes the process look like mental illness when it is actually mental healing.

Some of the comments I have read from people who practice occultism, paganism, and witchcraft suggest that they are attempting to improve themselves psychologically by creating artificial psychological stresses - almost like going to the gym and lifting weights to tear muscle fiber so that it will come back stronger.