Religions of Wood (Christianity) and Stone (Islam)

[Hoshiyya]

The term "wood and stone" is used repeatedly throughout scripture in reference to false religions and pagan idols. The scriptures prophetically promise that many Jews will be led into the service of false religions.
Here are a few notworthy instances:

Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods--gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known.
Deuteronomy 28:64

The LORD will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone.
Deuteronomy 28:36

Because Israel's immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood.
Jeremiah 3:9

A rabbi mentioned that the wood symbolically refers to the wooden crucifix of Christianity and that the stone refers to the Ka'aba stone of Islam.

 

[Truthfrees]

The term "wood and stone" is used repeatedly throughout scripture in reference to false religions and pagan idols. The scriptures prophetically promise that many Jews will be led into the service of false religions.
Here are a few notworthy instances:

Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods--gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known.
Deuteronomy 28:64

The LORD will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone.
Deuteronomy 28:36

Because Israel's immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood.
Jeremiah 3:9

A rabbi mentioned that the wood symbolically refers to the wooden crucifix of Christianity and that the stone refers to the Ka'aba stone of Islam.

Due to the fact it says "gods of wood and stone" in every scripture, I take it to mean other religions worship gods that are carved out of wood or stone, rather than the ONE TRUE and LIVING G-D who told us not to make graven images.

There must be something more to why YHWH doesn't want graven images made.

Does it connect with the fact no one has seen YHWH, so a graven image would always have to be of a creation, not of the true Creator?

 

[Hoshiyya]

I think Allah qualifies as the God of the Ka'aba, hence, the God of the stone.
Virgin Mary, God and Christ and all the saints have been depicted in wooden images and icons, the worship of which constitutes idolatry. Arguably, the primary object used in idol-worship today is the crucifix.

Remember, even the worship of Hashem is idolatry if it is done through the use of statues or images.
Some rabbis say that the golden calf Aaron made was actually meant to symbolically depict Hashem, and not a foreign god, and hence that he was punished for the sin of depicting Hashem.

 

[Truthfrees]

I think Allah qualifies as the God of the Ka'aba, hence, the God of the stone.
Virgin Mary, God and Christ and all the saints have been depicted in wooden images and icons, the worship of which constitutes idolatry. Arguably, the primary object used in idol-worship today is the crucifix.

Remember, even the worship of Hashem is idolatry if it is done through the use of statues or images.
Some rabbis say that the golden calf Aaron made was actually meant to symbolically depict Hashem, and not a foreign god, and hence that he was punished for the sin of depicting Hashem.

Graven image is similar to the word "graphic", so paintings of a god may be included in this command?

It's interesting YHWH told us to write HIS words down and keep them before our eyes, but not graven images of even HIM.

Perhaps YHWH wants us to fill our imaging faculties with only HIS words.

Perhaps Yeshua's parables were to fill our imaginations with the doing of YHWH's words.

"This Book of the Law shall not depart out of your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, that you may observe [see] and do according to all that is written in it. For then you shall make your way prosperous, and then you shall deal wisely and have good success." - Joshua 1:8

IOW, YHWH's words can produce images, and images can show us how to do things YHWH's way, which produces success.

 

[Hoshiyya]

I think images, including paintings, computer graphics, statues, etc. can all be legitimate mediums for many purposes, just not for worship or use in worship.

Catholics and Orthodox Christians like to say "we do not worship the images, we just use the images as part of our worship", but that is simply a different sin.

 

[visionary]

I think images, including paintings, computer graphics, statues, etc. can all be legitimate mediums for many purposes, just not for worship or use in worship.

Catholics and Orthodox Christians like to say "we do not worship the images, we just use the images as part of our worship", but that is simply a different sin.

Yep.. the minute they bow down before the image... bingo.. it is no longer an illustration medium but worshiped. It doesn't help when the image bleeds or cries.

 

[pshun2404]

The term "wood and stone" is used repeatedly throughout scripture in reference to false religions and pagan idols. The scriptures prophetically promise that many Jews will be led into the service of false religions.
Here are a few notworthy instances:

Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods--gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known.
Deuteronomy 28:64

The LORD will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone.
Deuteronomy 28:36

Because Israel's immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood.
Jeremiah 3:9

A rabbi mentioned that the wood symbolically refers to the wooden crucifix of Christianity and that the stone refers to the Ka'aba stone of Islam.

A sad testimony to delusional self justification, since we know exactly what God said is exactly what God meant. There is one brand of "Christian" that worships the wooden cross and one brand of Islam that worships the stone as if these have some power but we know that is not putting Ha'Shem first.

Messiah Jesus IS Ha'Shem manifest, the Word of YHVH made flesh (the Memra of the Targumim), the brightness of His glory (the Shekinah in bodily form), the visible image of the invisible God. So because this man is in denial of Messiah and His purpose in this first of two appearances he must discredit Him. He who has not the Son has not the Father (YHVH is Father, YHVH is the Son, YHVH is the Holy Spirit...and there are not three YHVH's only one)

Paul

 

[Hoshiyya]

There is one brand of "Christian" that worships the wooden cross and one brand of Islam that worships the stone as if these have some power but we know that is not putting Ha'Shem first.

Agreed.

Scripture is, according to this Rabbi at least, prophecying that some Jews will be led astray by the false religions of their surroundings during the exile.

 

[rick357]

Idolitry always has one source... self.....and it is never as dangerous and deceptive as at the base of the mount where YHWH meets men face to face. Why did Israel choose a gold calf....because they looked at their work in a offering and exalted their work(they brought the calf)
The christian who exalts the cross as what he must do is not partaker of what YHWH did there....there religion becomes what self must do and trust....all that depends on self kisses the hand of satan.....this can also be done with Torah as Yeshua warned against

*[[Joh 5:37-41]] RNKJV*
%v 37% And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
%v 38% And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
%v 39% Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
%v 40% And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
%v 41% I receive not honour from men.

Also to this end Paul warns us that in trying to restore those who stand should be aware less they fall....

We must always remember obediance does not bring life but when we rely on his life abiding in us that life from Yeshua brings obediance.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Idolitry always has one source... self.....and it is never as dangerous and deceptive as at the base of the mount where YHWH meets men face to face. Why did Israel choose a gold calf....because they looked at their work in a offering and exalted their work(they brought the calf)
The christian who exalts the cross as what he must do is not partaker of what YHWH did there....there religion becomes what self must do and trust....all that depends on self kisses the hand of satan.....this can also be done with Torah as Yeshua warned against

*[[Joh 5:37-41]] RNKJV*
%v 37% And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
%v 38% And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
%v 39% Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
%v 40% And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
%v 41% I receive not honour from men.

Also to this end Paul warns us that in trying to restore those who stand should be aware less they fall....

We must always remember obediance does not bring life but when we rely on his life abiding in us that life from Yeshua brings obediance.

Yes but the point is that "wood" refers to Christianity, and "stone" to Islam.
And indeed, these are the two primary religions that Jews have converted to or been forcibly converted to during the last 1500 years.

When I say "Christianity" I (as usual) am referring to historical Catholicism and to a lesser extent other forms of Christianity such as Protestantism, Orthodox Christianity, Coptic Christianity, etc.

 

[pshun2404]

Wood means wood (not Christianity, the Rabbi is eisegeting) and stone means stone (not Islam)...his assessment is based in his own prejudice. These are not used metaphorically here. The people of Israel and Judah literally rejected the glory of God for a lie and worshipped gods made of wood and stone.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Wood means wood (not Christianity, the Rabbi is eisegeting) and stone means stone (not Islam)...his assessment is based in his own prejudice. These are not used metaphorically here. The people of Israel and Judah literally rejected the glory of God for a lie and worshipped gods made of wood and stone.

Well, some of them literally worshipped deities like Baal, who was represented in images of wood and stone and silver and bronze, and other gods, but they were not literally thought to be made of wood any more than Christ is thought to be literally made of wood by those who adore the images thereof.

I think the exegesis is an interesting one and symbolically logical. It also makes historical sense, as I explained earlier. Christianity and Islam are the primary religions that Jews have converted to in the last 1500-2000 years.

 

[rick357]

Yes but the point is that "wood" refers to Christianity, and "stone" to Islam.
And indeed, these are the two primary religions that Jews have converted to or been forcibly converted to during the last 1500 years.

When I say "Christianity" I (as usual) am referring to historical Catholicism and to a lesser extent other forms of Christianity such as Protestantism, Orthodox Christianity, Coptic Christianity, etc.

No doubt it is appicable...and I find it bright of you to have drawn it out....yet the fullness would be any construction of man...babel...egypt...mayan...for YHWH brings us up from egypt and tells us to come out of babylon....but as I said your point is very applicable.

 

[rick357]

Well, some of them literally worshipped deities like Baal, who was represented in images of wood and stone and silver and bronze, and other gods, but they were not literally thought to be made of wood any more than Christ is thought to be literally made of wood by those who adore the images thereof.

I think the exegesis is an interesting one and symbolically logical. It also makes historical sense, as I explained earlier. Christianity and Islam are the primary religions that Jews have converted to in the last 1500-2000 years.

All worship of Adams work consider Adam work oppisite of Messiah

*[[Jud 1:11]] RNKJV* Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

In opposition to the way the truth and the life of Messiah

Yet as to our subject Cains way is to worship the work of his own hands....which is the base of all idolotry.

 

[Hoshiyya]

All worship of Adams work consider Adam work oppisite of Messiah

*[[Jud 1:11]] RNKJV* Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

In opposition to the way the truth and the life of Messiah

Yet as to our subject Cains way is to worship the work of his own hands....which is the base of all idolotry.

no idea what point you're making or how it relates to the OP...

 

[rick357]

no idea what point you're making or how it relates to the OP...

My point is all false religion as with cain is the work of mens hands...so Jeremiah is applicable to false christianity and Islam

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

good point / realization/ with a (possibly morbid) end result. (termination of the worldly).

yet perfectly just and righteous and planned by Yhvh (termination of the worldly).

where IS the true believer any more ?? where can someone find them ?? yes, a true dilemma.

(a dilemma for the poor, destitute, broken down, desparing, sinners.... not a dilemma for the self pleased religious who think they need no doctor but have somehow got it made in the shade!)

all over the place, any place and every place I've been for the last several decades,
there
are plenty of (an overwhelming plenty of) optional places/ peoples/ groups/ churches/ to go to and
'pretend' to seek and to please "god" somehow. and someone will tell you "YES! this is the way" ..... and ... well .....

test all. test everything. pray desperately, pray as if life depends on it, when seeking Yhvh.

Life does depend on Yhvh. man is deceitful, cunning, devious, and pernicious.

Yhvh Always Provides a Way to Find Him, in Yahshua, as He has Planned. (not according to man's plans, oh no). But few do. That's about the saddest truth of mankind there is. Few do.

 

[pshun2404]

Well, some of them literally worshipped deities like Baal, who was represented in images of wood and stone and silver and bronze, and other gods, but they were not literally thought to be made of wood any more than Christ is thought to be literally made of wood by those who adore the images thereof.

I think the exegesis is an interesting one and symbolically logical. It also makes historical sense, as I explained earlier. Christianity and Islam are the primary religions that Jews have converted to in the last 1500-2000 years.

Without the finished work of Messiah they shall all die in their sins! Sadly this Rabbi will probably also die in his sins. Unless they are remitted he will not be able to enter into the Kingdom.

 

[MWood]

Without the finished work of Messiah they shall all die in their sins! Sadly this Rabbi will probably also die in his sins. Unless they are remitted he will not be able to enter into the Kingdom.

This Rabbi and all other peoples of the world, from the beginning of time to the ending of time, has been forgiven by the shed blood of Christ when He died on the Cross.
So saith the scripture.

So after posting I re-read your post, and I agree.
"Without the finished work of Messiah"

 

[AbbaLove]

Wood means wood (not Christianity, the Rabbi is eisegeting) and stone means stone (not Islam)...his assessment is based in his own prejudice. These are not used metaphorically here. The people of Israel and Judah literally rejected the glory of God for a lie and worshipped gods made of wood and stone.

Without the finished work of Messiah they shall all die in their sins! Sadly this Rabbi will probably also die in his sins. Unless they are remitted he will not be able to enter into the Kingdom.

​

Matthew 23:8-10
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.
9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.


Since when is there any reference to the "Christians" at Antioch worshiping a wooden cross, or making the sign of the cross, or wearing a cross dangling from their neck. A Christ-ian is one who has the Christ-like Spirit. Why degrade the original meaning of the word as if all Christians have been corrupted. Is there not always a faithful gentile remnant of Spirit-filled Christians to be found.