Religeous OCD(Scrupoulisity)!

[frank1234]

Hi everyone;
It seems to me that alot of people with religeous OCD know what is correct and what is not, but they just can't practice it(Due to underlying fear). We know how to give advise to others, but when it comes to ourselves, as if, we can't live according to our own advice. I know I am not the only person in this. Is anyone else like me out there?
What do you guys think people, such as myself with this problem, should do? I have prayed and prayed, and I have done counceltations with counselors and such, but still this is the dominant theme in my problems. I sure could use ideas. Thanks very much and GOD bless.

 

[OptimisticSmile]

I think abut paul. he had the gift of healing yet he himself did not find healing for the "thorn in his side". I have christians tell me all the time how much of an encourager I am yet I myself am rarely encouraged even by the encouragment I give.

 

[gracealone]

I agree with OP that God is more than able to use those of us with the thorn of OCD. Having it develops certain qualities of compassion and empathy that we might not otherwise have. So therefore God uses us because of it and not in spite of it... don't you think? I do often have problems following my own advice about OCD. This is because I am not yet cured of this affliction so I still battle the symptoms. Chicken pox causes itchy red blisters but we don't blame the person who has it for the spots. OCD causes intense anxiety and obsessing, let's just call them brain blisters, but the OCD sufferer tends to blame themselves for those blisters.
I have had long periods of what I guess I would refer to as remission from the disorder and during those times it is very easy to live without the doubt and anxiety of OCD thinking. But I don't credit or discredit myself for that - I just know that during those times my brain chemistry is more balanced. (How I thank God for those times.)
Just think... someday when we are home with the Lord all this OCD stuff that we have often blamed ourselves for will just fall off from us like any other disease or illness. On the flip side of that there will likely be things that we've patted ourselves on the back for which were just part of the creative goodness or giftedness that God has placed within our natures and not really our own doing.
The things for which He will say... "well done" will likely take us quite by surprise... and the things like OCD which have caused us to beat ourselves up will die away as part of the old creation which is now groaning under the weight of sin.
I'm certain, Frank, that God has some... "well dones", in store for you.. but it's far better for you to not know of them just now... else you, (myself included)... might fall prey to pride and start to develop what I like to call a heavenly sticker chart.
God Bless,
Mitzi

 

[OptimisticSmile]

I like what you said grace alone about empathy and compassion because before my bout with this I was sold out for becomeing a christian counselor. Im currently in grad school but I am going to have a back up plan just in case God is using the OCD to tell me this is not for me. Im only 21 and I am still growing into who God wants me to be and I believe the OCD has given me experiences toward that and research shows that the best counselors are "wounded Healers" who have struggled and persevered. I also believe and hope that as I go through with the course that the Holy Spirit will minister to me like never before so that I can have a renewed zeal for Christ-centered therapy and a renewed confidence in his changing power. I see the OCD as being a huge learning expereince that cannot be taught in a book in which God will shape me and mold me into the person he wants me to be in the ministry he has for me.

 

[marcb]

I agree with OP that God is more than able to use those of us with the thorn of OCD. Having it develops certain qualities of compassion and empathy that we might not otherwise have.

I also agree. I had little compassion for the "mentally ill" prior to experiencing this myself. I was more of a "have a cocktail and quit complaining" kind of guy.

So therefore God uses us because of it and not in spite of it... don't you think?

Yes! It's our calling and our cross.

I do often have problems following my own advice about OCD. This is because I am not yet cured of this affliction so I still battle the symptoms.

I cannot follow my own (or anybody else's) advice for that matter. The last few days I have been so troubled with this. It's like I can't even pray about it, or when I do, I get garbage intrusive thoughts. If I do "succeed" in prayer, I cannot feel "right" afterwards. I feel so bad, remorseful, and guilty over something I said yesterday about our church, (in a relatively casual conversation) and the day before it was something else I said, that of course no longer bothers me.

Chicken pox causes itchy red blisters but we don't blame the person who has it for the spots. OCD causes intense anxiety and obsessing, let's just call them brain blisters, but the OCD sufferer tends to blame themselves for those blisters.

I feel more responsible than ever, because I did more than think thoughts, I said them. I mentioned to another church member that maybe we should be focusing more on Christ's redemptive work on the Cross, than on waiting to hear God's voice.

I feel I have blasphemed or grieved the Holy Spirit in this situation. I know God interacts with us dynamically through His word, His people, situations, and through inspiration - which could be His voice. We should be in tune with God and meditating. Sometimes, I feel that I start to drift from the center of it all which is Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection. However, I feel that I spoke out and was undermining to our church and therefore to Christ's body and mission.

I do not want to impose this view on any of you. I think I am trying to publically confess, but at the same time I guess I am looking for reassurance that what I said was not such a blasphemous sin. I don't know... I have prayed and prayed, but still feel bad. I am so twisted and confused right now and it's spilling over into everything.

Just think... someday when we are home with the Lord all this OCD stuff that we have often blamed ourselves for will just fall off from us like any other disease or illness.

Lately that's all I seem to hope for. But I know we have much work to do for the kingdom until then. I don't want to just wait until He calls me -- I know that isn't what you are implying -- it has just been on my mind.

On the flip side of that there will likely be things that we've patted ourselves on the back for which were just part of the creative goodness or giftedness that God has placed within our natures and not really our own doing.
The things for which He will say... "well done" will likely take us quite by surprise... and the things like OCD which have caused us to beat ourselves up will die away as part of the old creation which is now groaning under the weight of sin.
I'm certain, Frank, that God has some... "well dones", in store for you.. but it's far better for you to not know of them just now... else you, (myself included)... might fall prey to pride and start to develop what I like to call a heavenly sticker chart.

I know that pride. It seems to kick in the second things start to go well. What a trap! I am sorry to be such a downer tonight. Please pray for me.....

Thank you for reading. Marc

 

[BeccaLynn]

Marc,

I think I know what you mean about feeling prideful. I've been thinking about that quite a bit lately concerning myself, that I'm prideful. And it does seem to hit the moment things start to go well. For example, my husband received a job just recently after being permanently layed off at the end of January. I would pray about a job for him, but the minute it seemed like he might be getting a job, and I would pray about God opening the door to that particular job if that's where He wanted him, then I'd think things like, "I don't need Jesus to do this", as if the job was already in the bag for my husband whether God provided it or not. I would, of course, think tbat I didn't mean that, but it's as if I think or feel prideful thoughts that seem to "counteract" the things I'm praying about. Concerning the comment you made about your church . . . I have said things many times before that I even felt I shouldn't have said before they came out of my mouth. Yet, I chose to say them anyway. I struggle with that since I knew it was wrong. It sounds as if you, perhaps, were talking out of frustration or just voicing your opinion. Either way, every single person has said things that they later regret. The thing is that the ones who don't have OCD can typically repent for it, if they think it's something that needs to be repented of, and go on. Those of us with OCD beat ourselves up for it. Since you were talking about focusing on what Jesus did on the cross, remember that if you said something that you think needs to be forgiven, then that's exactly what He hung on the cross for. I know it's easy to say, yet hard to except, but it doesn't change that truth. I does seem as if it's not one thing to feel guilty over, then it's another. So we do amplify things in our own minds. Possibly, if you feel the guilt so strongly, you should speak to the church member you made that comment to and tell them that you feel you said something you shouldn't have and want them to know you are sorry. Maybe you are feeling this way because of how we are taught there is to be unity in the church. However, it doesn't mean that everyone is going to be of the same opinion about everything. Maybe you feel as if you were kind of gossiping instead of approaching the minister with your thoughts on this issue, so that's making you feel worse? I'm unsure, but many times I've told someone I'm sorry for something I've said, yet still felt so guilty, as if it's still there. The thing is that we, just like the other OCD thoughts, have to learn to just let it go. Imagine, if it helps, that that particular "sin" has been convered by Jesus' blood and is removed as far as the east is from the west.


Rebecca

 

[gracealone]

I do often have problems following my own advice about OCD. This is because I am not yet cured of this affliction so I still battle the symptoms.

I cannot follow my own (or anybody else's) advice for that matter. The last few days I have been so troubled with this. It's like I can't even pray about it, or when I do, I get garbage intrusive thoughts. If I do "succeed" in prayer, I cannot feel "right" afterwards. I feel so bad, remorseful, and guilty over something I said yesterday about our church, (in a relatively casual conversation) and the day before it was something else I said, that of course no longer bothers me.

Hi Marc, I know how discouraging it can be to go two step forward in the battle against the disorder only to be put back another step or more just days later. Yes...the moment I think, "ah ha!! finally I've overcome that obsession" it can come at me in another way, but in the end it all relates to the same theme.. to put it bluntly..
"I'm condemned to hell."

Chicken pox causes itchy red blisters but we don't blame the person who has it for the spots. OCD causes intense anxiety and obsessing, let's just call them brain blisters, but the OCD sufferer tends to blame themselves for those blisters.

I feel more responsible than ever, because I did more than think thoughts, I said them.

Uh OH!! You're really sunk now! (I'm not serious, I'm just playing the role of advocate for your OCD spikes)



I feel I have blasphemed or grieved the Holy Spirit in this situation.

This the over the top irrational fear reaction that the anxiety/feelings of the spike has brought on. So just sing to yourself.. "feelings.. nothing more than feelings" but don't go any further than that.


I think I am trying to publically confess,

This - the compulsion to try and undo or solve the spike.

but at the same time I guess I am looking for reassurance

Ah yes...looking for reassurance, I've done that many times too - another classic symptom of OCD which only makes the spike seem all the more vaild... when it is not.

that what I said was not such a blasphemous sin. I don't know...

You do know, but you have "The doubting disease" so you have the habit of second guessing everything.

I have prayed and prayed, but still feel bad. I am so twisted and confused right now and it's spilling over into everything.

Yes... and I'm so sorry for your pain. When we fall off the exposure/response wagon, OCD once again,(blast it all!!) takes center stage and the hyper-vigilant mode of our anxiety center intrudes into so many areas of life.


Just think... someday when we are home with the Lord all this OCD stuff that we have often blamed ourselves for will just fall off from us like any other disease or illness.

Lately that's all I seem to hope for. But I know we have much work to do for the kingdom until then. I don't want to just wait until He calls me -- I know that isn't what you are implying -- it has just been on my mind.

That's OK Marc... I fully understand what you mean.

On the flip side of that there will likely be things that we've patted ourselves on the back for which were just part of the creative goodness or giftedness that God has placed within our natures and not really our own doing.
The things for which He will say... "well done" will likely take us quite by surprise... and the things like OCD which have caused us to beat ourselves up will die away as part of the old creation which is now groaning under the weight of sin.
I'm certain, Frank, that God has some... "well dones", in store for you.. but it's far better for you to not know of them just now... else you, (myself included)... might fall prey to pride and start to develop what I like to call a heavenly sticker chart.

I know that pride. It seems to kick in the second things start to go well. What a trap! I am sorry to be such a downer tonight. Please pray for me.....

You aren't a downer, you are a friend and fellow sufferer.. and I'm so glad that you open up on this forum. That's what it's for and I'm glad that I can do the same.
I am praying for you.
I want you to know, that so many times the things you have shared have helped and encouraged me in such clear and practicle ways.
I hope I haven't offended you in my responses above. I was responding to your OCD spikes in the way I would respond to my own. Also because, I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, I'm just reminding you. I too am trying to learn to recognize the enemy as it pushes it's way into my own life and put the stamp of "invalid - not worthy of attention" on it's attacks.



Thank you for reading. Marc[/quote]

No ... thank you for your honest, open and transparent post. It is these types of posts that make us all know we are not alone in our pain.

Mitzi

 

[OptimisticSmile]

wow reading everyones responses to this I really see a change in everyone and its really encouraging. mabye its because i see a change in myself. for instance I have a freind that just told me im a perfect example of the book of james (humbleness in service) that encourages me that the thorn is fulfilling its purpose. also i talked to my pastor and even though I admited I still struggle with doubt and my pastor did not seem to be overly concerned so i figure why should I and also he has encouraged me that the hope that I have in this playing into my future ministry is probly confirmation that Im called and that my motives (which i question as being Godly as with everything) he told me are also a very good sign that Im called.I had the thought that "what if being a counselor is the one thing that brings me a sense of assurence by seeing God work through me everyday" and I was bugged by that thinking it was selfish to think that because it becomes about me and not my future clients.If im fitted for counseling then that is probly something God will bless me in and the past few months really have been priceless experience that cant be learned in a book. So for me everything seems to be making sense now and I feel as I read others posts that we are all on the same wavelength with this. its the spirit joining us together in this struggle.

follow the advice of others here it is sound advice. heres some christian metal lyrics by a band called soul embraced that have ministered to my heart and I hope it will encourage you

live ever after in the knowledge that
I cared for you enough to save your soul
it doesn't matter if its ever enough
or it feels like too much
cause its always perfect love

you cannot measure what you dont understand
cause your only a man
just an image of the truth
just remeber that you have to let go
and let me take control
cause im watching over you

 

[marcb]

Thank you for taking the time to answer my post. Mitzi, you should be a counselor, you really addressed the core of the issue - the core that I guess I am still unwilling to recognize and address at this time.

Optimistic Smile - thanks for showing the purpose of "the thorn" and how you and others can see these changes.

I am really in the midst of something I haven't yet been able to let go of. Do you have the experience of knowing you are obsessing, but you keep going, because one more piece of advice from somebody, one more confession, or one more angle will allow you to "drop it"? One more...I feel like an out of control addict. I guess I am in a very real sense. The problem with all of this obsessing is that eventually and almost invariably the thinking will hit bottom until I am really scared. The original thought or situation then becomes a place I wished I had stopped. Despair or frustration over time can push a thought from being an honest question to a dark, twisted thought that feels so real, so out of the heart and soul that it feels unpardonable.

I had worried for 3 days nonstop about the statement I had made regarding "listening for and discerning God's voice vs. emphasizing the centrality of Christ's death and resurrection." My pastor firmly believes God has spoken to him. I believe him, but since I had been obsessed with my comments about "listening for God vs. focusing on His Grace," a breaking point finally was reached where I had the thought that "maybe Satan was speaking to him to throw him off" (or something like that). This thought pushed me over the edge and demonstrates how obsessions finally hit rock bottom if I persist in them. By the way, I believe God speaks to all of us in many different ways, just as I believe to the contrary of many of the thoughts I experience. I think God is giving me much grace as I write, because I am starting to see the absurdity of my thinking and am experiencing peace and release and I hope forgiveness.

In His mighty grip,
Marc

 

[gracealone]

Marc,
I know exactly what you mean buddy. Sometimes when I "get a grip" all that I was so fearfully and frantically obsessing about seems absurd to me also.
But even "though we fall - we are not utterly cast down, for the Lord holds us in His hand."
Great to know that when we fall we don't fall out of His hands - but in.
Glad you are experiencing some relief.
Mitzi