Relax, the planet is fine

[Voegelin]

Money is partly to blame for the global warming hysteria, Professor Richard Lindzen says

Linda Frum, National Post

Published: Saturday, April 21, 2007

This Earth Day, Professor Richard Lindzen, an atmospheric physicist and the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at MIT, wants you to calm down. The Earth, he says, is in good shape. "Forests are returning in Europe and the United States. Air quality has improved. Water quality has improved. We grow more food on less land. We've done a reasonably good job in much of the world in conquering hunger. And yet we're acting as though: "How can we stand any more of this?" A leading critic on the theory of man-made global warming, Professor Lindzen has developed a reputation as America's anti-doom-andgloom scientist. And he's not, he says, as lonely as you might think.

Q You don't dispute that the globe is warming?

A It has never been an issue of whether the Earth is warming -- because it's always warming or cooling. The issue is: What are the magnitudes involved? It's a big difference if it's warming a degree or two or 10, or if it's warming a few tenths of a degree.

Q And it's inconclusive how much it's warming?

A Sure it's inconclusive. It's a very hard thing to analyze because you have to average huge fluctuations over the whole Earth, and 70% of the Earth is oceans where you don't have weather stations. So you get different groups analyzing this. And they're pretty close. One group gets over the last century a warming of about .55 degrees centigrade. Another group says it's .75 degrees . . .

Q You charge that the hysteria that's been created around global warming is an enormous financial scam. It's all about money?

A Well, how shall I put it? It's not all about money, but boy, there's a lot of money floating in it. I mean, emissions trading is going to be a multi-trillion dollar market. Emissions alone would keep small countries in business . . .

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=ebd65ed3-80c2-441b-98ca-c4fbc7233e96&p=1

 

[gwynedd1]

Money is partly to blame for the global warming hysteria, Professor Richard Lindzen says

Linda Frum, National Post

Published: Saturday, April 21, 2007

This Earth Day, Professor Richard Lindzen, an atmospheric physicist and the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at MIT, wants you to calm down. The Earth, he says, is in good shape. "Forests are returning in Europe and the United States. Air quality has improved. Water quality has improved. We grow more food on less land. We've done a reasonably good job in much of the world in conquering hunger. And yet we're acting as though: "How can we stand any more of this?" A leading critic on the theory of man-made global warming, Professor Lindzen has developed a reputation as America's anti-doom-andgloom scientist. And he's not, he says, as lonely as you might think.

Q You don't dispute that the globe is warming?

A It has never been an issue of whether the Earth is warming -- because it's always warming or cooling. The issue is: What are the magnitudes involved? It's a big difference if it's warming a degree or two or 10, or if it's warming a few tenths of a degree.

Q And it's inconclusive how much it's warming?

A Sure it's inconclusive. It's a very hard thing to analyze because you have to average huge fluctuations over the whole Earth, and 70% of the Earth is oceans where you don't have weather stations. So you get different groups analyzing this. And they're pretty close. One group gets over the last century a warming of about .55 degrees centigrade. Another group says it's .75 degrees . . .

Q You charge that the hysteria that's been created around global warming is an enormous financial scam. It's all about money?

A Well, how shall I put it? It's not all about money, but boy, there's a lot of money floating in it. I mean, emissions trading is going to be a multi-trillion dollar market. Emissions alone would keep small countries in business . . .

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=ebd65ed3-80c2-441b-98ca-c4fbc7233e96&p=1

Carbon trading is a huge scam. It is another fiat currency that will be created out of, poof, thin air. It is also a world socialism mechanism. This get the globalists, socialists , environmentalists and capitalists in bed together. Too bad for the average person though.
Naturally all this money will flow to the banks that lend to third world countries. Large banks have huge incentives to divert money to the third world who are often indebted to them. The Panama Canal is an excellent example. The canal was a US revenue creating asset. When the Panamanian government was defaulting on loans to US banks the bankers went to work on US politicians to let Panama run the canal. With the new source of revenue Panama resumed its payments on the debt. Good for noe-feudalistic rulers of thirdworld countries who get the loans and new cash and the banks, but bad for the ordinary people who suffer from relatively powerful local governments and US tax payers.
Why not just tax fuel with offsetting drops in other taxes and pass laws for higher fuel efficiency standards? There no money in it , thats why.

 

[harmony85]

Think of the accumulation of the little things people spend their money on such as energy saving light bulbs, better insulation, which on the plus side contribute slightly to a cheaper leccie bill.

But wait... the prices of leccie seem to go up to cancel out any savings.

Though Im not saying its a bad thing doing our part to make the load on the world slightly easier, I don't think its really made informative for us public to understand exactly whats going on and how exactly we are helping if at all by what we change.

Its quite a guilt trip really, our carbon footprint. Hehe.
Means were expected to watch how we travel, what we eat, where the food comes from (ie. flown back and forth), recycling, theres nothing wrong with that per say.

Tho also if we buy local produce to minimize travel of the food, then the third world countries that depend on demand of their exports as part of their agreement to their debts suffer for it.

Its just too complex.

A friend suggested to me that everyone should burn their wages outside parliament (disregard the treason issue), so that the banks cant store our money and make interest on it, the government would lose alot of money from the fact that its not being stored and spent,
trouble with doing that isn't the fact that youd have nothing to live on (i don't mind that Id learn to live)
but youd have to get alot of people doing that, and a solution to prevent such a thing would be to develop a cashless society.
(speculation during a drunk convo I apologise)

But the point is... money makes the world go round and joe bloggs doesnt really know enough to be able to understand properly. If everyone understood, then informed decisions would be made and that would be disastrous to the people who would rather choose for us.

I have many many arguments for all sides of most things I try to keep an open mind so forgive me if this is biased. It tends to make me ramble and very difficult to make a clear point since I don't feel I know enough to be able to be entirely convicting in my opinions.

 

[ArcticFox]

We often forget that many people have a stake in making sure that the public perception is that of "doom." That is, some would lose lots of money, respect, their jobs, companies, etc., if it could be shown that the earth is "not so bad."

No one disputes that pollution is a major problem. Our health and the health of our surrounding ecosystems is dependent on it. Who wants dirty water that can make you sick? Who wants to breathe in smog? No one, of course.

No one really disputes that the earth is getting warmer, but they dispute the cause of this increase in heat. The increase is yet marginal, and may not be significant. However, what is causing it is the mystery. Is it really the presence of industries' pollution? Or, is the earth going through natural cycles? The earth has always had periods of hotter and colder weather. Some try to link increases in heat with recent increases in factories, but this is problematic; if the natural cycle of the earth just happens to fall at around the same time, there is no way to distinguish the difference of what is causing the heating.

Rather than spend so much effort and time trying to prove global warming or such, we should divest that time into working to reduce and eliminate, as much as possible, sources of pollution. Although it's not always easy, since eliminating some pollution will put people out of jobs or cause problems elsewhere, we can still make headway.

What is the ultimate goal? I believe it's two-fold:

1) Maintain the beauty of the natural earth so that it best shows forth the glory of our God.

2) Maintain the health of the earth for the health of humans.

 

[marshgreencohen]

how can it explain the hottest days we experience now here in our country?

 

[harmony85]

1) Maintain the beauty of the natural earth so that it best shows forth the glory of our God.

2) Maintain the health of the earth for the health of humans.

yuppity that makes sense.

I found this link, it's relatively unbiased and quite simple.
Might be of interest.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast20oct_1.htm

Is human activity warming the Earth or do recent signs of climate change signal natural variations? In this feature article, scientists discuss the vexing ambiguities of our planet's complex and unwieldy climate.

Also:: Genesis 1:26-29

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him;male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." 29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

Which tells me that either way, we should be doing our best to look after it anyway.

 

[Greatcloud]

Global warming some answers. The globe is warming, from 1900 til now it has warmed .6 F , that is not very much. ​

This is the 6th such warming since the Holocene maximum. Warming periods like the one we are in now have been happening every 1,500 years on average.​

The previous warming period was the Medieval warm period 800 years ago. These reoccurring warm periods, scientists mostly agree, are caused by the Sun perhaps with orbital wobbling.​

AGW(man caused global warming) theorist say that this warm period we are in is caused by CO2 which man makes. They say that CO2 is the only driving force to cause warming.​

Skeptics say that this is a natural warming and CO2 can't have much if any effect.​

Now here is the good part. Temperatures ever since 1998 have gone down drastically. That would be wonderful except they have spiked up one year and then gone down again. What we end up with currently is a stasis it is staying the same. This of course is better then rocketing upward like in the 1990's.​

So now given we have a stasis we have more time to stop air pollution and we should. I however do not believe in AGW I have looked at all the science out there and I am in the Solar warming camp. I also firmly believe warming has far more benefical effects then bad.​

So now we have all the foreseeable time in the world to clean up the world there are many achievable goals we can meet to make a clean world. Except right now AGW is crowding the picture and actually hurting the cause of the big cleanup. [I get to sweep China !] ​

But we can't just stop using coal,our energy needs are still growing, as is most everything in the world right now. This will not last til Jesus comes, eventually we will reach a stasis and level out. It is nothing to be afraid of.​

The most important need in this area is to develop a new efficient, renewable, cheap energy source. We don't have one now and they don't just pop into existence. So we are going to have to depend on some dirty energy for a while. And thats the way it is.​

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[MezzaMorta]

Global warming is a very real and dangerous threat. People who continue to deny it and not actively work towards a solution are only going to cause more damage.

Remember, we do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. And at this rate there will not be much left.

 

[NHB_MMA]

I'm undecided on global warming, as I can't convince myself anyone in the scientific community that writes about it doesn't have some agenda of one kind of another.

I'm not inclined to take any radical action. The problem is that I have yet to meet anyone serious about the threat of global warming that wants me to do anything besides drive around in a small car that is a rolling death trap. Coal emissions are a huge contributor and no one wants to pursue nuclear power. No one that wants to take radical action has a realistic solution.

 

[MezzaMorta]

The problem is that I have yet to meet anyone serious about the threat of global warming that wants me to do anything besides drive around in a small car that is a rolling death trap.

My Lexus GS is hardly small or a death trap and it is a hybrid, gets up to 6 times the fuel efficiency of any pure gas car, has 450hp and all the conferts one could want in a car.

 

[NHB_MMA]

My Lexus GS is hardly small or a death trap and it is a hybrid, gets up to 6 times the fuel efficiency of any pure gas car, has 450hp and all the conferts one could want in a car.

Well, I was clearly making a generalization. Most cars with really good gas milage, hybrid or not, are death traps, compared to my Chevy Colorado. My Colorado was not available in a hybrid, only the Silverado was and I didn't have the extra 8K-10K. That brings up a fundamental problem, IMO, with hybrids...they costs too much. From what I have seen, you will spend several thousand dollars more on a hybrid model of the same vehicle. Depending on how much you drive, it could be a losing deal. Then there is the fact that it is still new technology. Are the engines every bit as reliable or will these cars start having problems before 100K, 150K, or 200K miles? Only time will tell. I drive a ton of miles and I can't afford to purchase a new vehicle anytime soon and still have to pay 4 more years on mine, so it must last.

BTW, that's a pretty sweet ride you've got there. What do you do for a living? Are they hiring?

 

[judahsgem]

I personally am undecided on the issue also, as there never seems to be hard proof one way or the other. One critic says one thing and another says the opposite.
I do believe the it could indeed be warming due to the fact of our population on the planet now, but also due to our lack of care for the planet, in general. God gave us a mandate, in the garden of eden, to be good stewards of the planet. So, despite the left or right wing on the issue of whether it is indeed warming or not; I believe we have a responsibility to do what each of us can do, individually, to make it easier on the planet and the people around us. This includes polluting the air, ground, water, etc.. Everything touches one another in either a good way or a bad way.

 

[MezzaMorta]

BTW, that's a pretty sweet ride you've got there. What do you do for a living? Are they hiring?

I promote night clubs here in NYC, it is a good job if you love to enjoy the club scene. Do it part time and goto university, want to start up my own clubs eventually.

 

[Voegelin]

Global warming is a very real and dangerous threat. People who continue to deny it and not actively work towards a solution are only going to cause more damage.

I consume fewer natural resources in twenty years than Al Gore does in one. I could list dozens of other Eco-Celebs who are just as profligate (Laure David flying around on private jets telling people to change light bulbs and John Travolta with the largest fleet of private jets in the country and probably the world). And I'm going to cause "more damage" to the environment?

And who is denying the slight increase in temps over the last few decades or century anyways? Not me. No one I know either. This whole "climate change denyer" stuff is demagoguery. So was changing the phrase from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change". How simplistic do the people pushing this think the public is? "Climate Change"...of course the climate changes. Who doesn't know that? The questions center on cause, effects and remedies (if any).

The problem is the hypocrisy and self-dealing of those who promote a radical restructing of society and are using "Climate Change" to do it. The problem is they have no proof anything they propose will have any effect at all much less a postive one. Note also how their proposals just happens to be statist in nature. Command and control. Give us the power to run the world's economy and the world will be saved.

The arrogance of that is breathtaking. The USA is a $12 trillion + plus economy composed of over 300 million individuals. Al Gore has enough information to make rational decisions on how that economy should be run? Al Gore knows what effects his proposals will have on the actions of all those people? That is simply absurd. Take it to the level of the entire world and it is ....well....I won't say it...let's leave it at "impratical".

 

[kulenok]

thanks for the link, I aggre with him, but a change in temeperature by even 1 degree can make hurricanes be bigger and badder.

 

[Strangerintheearth]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the sun as a possible source of global warming. I have noticed the sun has become quite hotter. When I'm driving a while, my arm or hand hurts from having the sun touch it. I'm not talking about sunburn. It hurts to leave it in the sunlight for too long. Also, the car is really warm in the winter if the sun is out and that never used to be the case. And, let's say you went to an outside event and the sun is out. You may want to bring an umbrella just to protect against the sun. But not too long ago, an umbrella was not really needed.

And since when has sun glare ever been a problem? Get behind an old model pick up truck on your way to work in the morning with their flat glass on the back of their cab and you could go blind. You can't see. Sun glare has become a big problem these days.

As a side note, I heard that a big chunk of ice just broke off the antartic today or yesterday.

I think one of previous posters had the right idea maybe when they said, global warming is just a big smokescreen. But for what? The fact that there is no global warming, but rather, something else? I could buy that.

 

[MezzaMorta]

I consume fewer natural resources in twenty years than Al Gore does in one. I could list dozens of other Eco-Celebs who are just as profligate (Laure David flying around on private jets telling people to change light bulbs and John Travolta with the largest fleet of private jets in the country and probably the world). And I'm going to cause "more damage" to the environment?

And who is denying the slight increase in temps over the last few decades or century anyways? Not me. No one I know either. This whole "climate change denyer" stuff is demagoguery. So was changing the phrase from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change". How simplistic do the people pushing this think the public is? "Climate Change"...of course the climate changes. Who doesn't know that? The questions center on cause, effects and remedies (if any).

The problem is the hypocrisy and self-dealing of those who promote a radical restructing of society and are using "Climate Change" to do it. The problem is they have no proof anything they propose will have any effect at all much less a postive one. Note also how their proposals just happens to be statist in nature. Command and control. Give us the power to run the world's economy and the world will be saved.

The arrogance of that is breathtaking. The USA is a $12 trillion + plus economy composed of over 300 million individuals. Al Gore has enough information to make rational decisions on how that economy should be run? Al Gore knows what effects his proposals will have on the actions of all those people? That is simply absurd. Take it to the level of the entire world and it is ....well....I won't say it...let's leave it at "impratical".

What Al Gore or these other people do doesn't have a thing to do with global warming. Them being hypocrites dosen't make their message any less true.

 

[NHB_MMA]

I promote night clubs here in NYC, it is a good job if you love to enjoy the club scene. Do it part time and goto university, want to start up my own clubs eventually.

So is that your means to that sweet ride exclusively, or have you always had considerable money? Just curious...and it does sound like a cool job.

 

[MezzaMorta]

So is that your means to that sweet ride exclusively, or have you always had considerable money? Just curious...and it does sound like a cool job.

my family is well off, but i support myself.

 

[mont974x4]

We need to be good stewards but not be worshipers of the creation instead of the Creator.