Relationship with God: love vs. logic

[frater_domus]

I have been thinking about my relationship with God and there is one issue, that I find difficult to address. You see, if I were to describe my relationship with Him, "love" wouldn't be the word. The thing is, I find it very hard to define love and it is not a word I very often. No, the first words to come to mind are "logic" and "duty-driven".

Let me elaborate. Some say I have a strong faith. Have I though? I mean, I know that I am a sinner and that I am condemned. I know that Christ is the way out. Why would I not believe in Christ and value his sacrifice for us? Seems logical to me. Also, God said what He'll do. What reason is there to doubt Him?
Some say that I have a strong will. Do I though? God is my fathet and my boss. Thus, what God says, goes. Why would I want to defy the words and will of my superior? Why would I carry on with certain activities if it offends him? Doing so would defy logic and would not be profitable.
Some say I am very humble. Am I though? I know very well that all good things are of God. They aren't mine. Why take credit or give in to pride?
Some say I have a strong drive. Do I? It is written that much is expected of him who had been given much. There is also the parable of the talents. I have received a lot of talents. Ergo, much is expected. Thus I attempt to make the most of it.

You get the picture. I can't say that I am overflowing with overwhelming love. I am a very pragmatic person and I rarely listen to emotions when stacked against reason. Many actions just seem logical and the most beneficial.

However, the bible often talks about love and I can't help but feel that I missed something or conclude that I am an unloving person and that I follow God because of self preservation.

Any advice how to approach this issue?
Thanks

Edit: Another thing to mention is that I do not care a lot about Sunday worship. I am not into sing song and dancing. To me, worship is every single action of every single moment. I do not see the purpose of singing when I can go outside and be a light to the world, help others and increase my faith. To me, a church community is best used for discussing theology, discerning the will of God and applying it to our lives. Again, something people define as love is absent in me. I seem to work differently. But is it good? That's the question.

 

[Dave L]

The way I understand is God set his love on us, not because we are lovable, but because he is Love. In fact, his love is far more glorious if he sets it on someone he naturally hates - all sinners. So it's not about us, it's about his glory. And after a while as he renews our minds through his word we begin to see how great his love is. Once we realize he saved us, and we did not jump through any hoops to save ourselves, which always leads to false and self-serving motives behind doing good. We begin to act in love and thanksgiving to him. And we love others and even our enemies as we pity them.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I have been thinking about my relationship with God and there is one issue, that I find difficult to address. You see, if I were to describe my relationship with Him, "love" wouldn't be the word. The thing is, I find it very hard to define love and it is not a word I very often. No, the first words to come to mind are "logic" and "duty-driven".

Let me elaborate. Some say I have a strong faith. Have I though? I mean, I know that I am a sinner and that I am condemned. I know that Christ is the way out. Why would I not believe in Christ and value his sacrifice for us? Seems logical to me. Also, God said what He'll do. What reason is there to doubt Him?
Some say that I have a strong will. Do I though? God is my fathet and my boss. Thus, what God says, goes. Why would I want to defy the words and will of my superior? Why would I carry on with certain activities if it offends him? Doing so would defy logic and would not be profitable.
Some say I am very humble. Am I though? I know very well that all good things are of God. They aren't mine. Why take credit or give in to pride?
Some say I have a strong drive. Do I? It is written that much is expected of him who had been given much. There is also the parable of the talents. I have received a lot of talents. Ergo, much is expected. Thus I attempt to make the most of it.

You get the picture. I can't say that I am overflowing with overwhelming love. I am a very pragmatic person and I rarely listen to emotions when stacked against reason. Many actions just seem logical and the most beneficial.

However, the bible often talks about love and I can't help but feel that I missed something or conclude that I am an unloving person and that I follow God because of self preservation.

Any advice how to approach this issue?
Thanks

Edit: Another thing to mention is that I do not care a lot about Sunday worship. I am not into sing song and dancing. To me, worship is every single action of every single moment. I do not see the purpose of singing when I can go outside and be a light to the world, help others and increase my faith. To me, a church community is best used for discussing theology, discerning the will of God and applying it to our lives. Again, something people define as love is absent in me. I seem to work differently. But is it good? That's the question.

We are all unique individuals so I can't tell you how you should "feel". As Jesus commanded "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself", you need to find out what love is in that context if you are committed to being a Christian. That would seem the logical thing to do IMO. Would you agree?

 

[Tolworth John]

the bible often talks about love and I can't help but feel that I missed something or conclude that I am an unloving person and that I follow God because of self preservation.

When the bible talks about 'Love' it does not mean the warm fuzzy feeling that most people associate with love.

God Loves Jesus, yet he sent him to die a disgusting, degrading death. He loves Jesus.

He also loves you, your fellow Christians and myself with that very same Strong, Tough, Demanding LOVE that he loves Jesus with.

There is no need for you to have 'warm fuzzt feelings' towards God, Jesus or your neighbours so long as you show that you care by your practical concern. practical prayers for them.

Remember we are not told to have 'warm fuzzy feelings' towards God, but to obey.

 

[mukk_in]

There's both love and intellect involved in our relationship with the Lord (Matthew 22:37). That verse involves both heart (emotions, faith, etc.) and mind (intellect, reason, comprehension, etc.). They may mean differently to different people. I always believed that the "Mind of Christ" in us through rebirth is the brilliance and logic of God (1 Corinthians 2:16). I think that it was Einstein who said, "I want to know God's thoughts, the rest are details." Original translations may also help. Just my thoughts. Great post .

 

[frater_domus]

We are all unique individuals so I can't tell you how you should "feel". As Jesus commanded "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself", you need to find out what love is in that context if you are committed to being a Christian. That would seem the logical thing to do IMO. Would you agree?

I do not want to argue that my actions are bad. God-centered reasoning is of the Spirit and a gift of God to cherished and used.
You mention loving your neighbour. Personally, I do not really feel "love" for my neighbour. However, I will always help if I can, I will be happy to work and even suffer so that he won't have to, I will forgive and not take action out of anger if I am wronged by him and I will not be looking for a reward, because being able to do God's will is its own reward.
While it may qualify as loving my neighbour, the center of that action is not the neighbour. It is God. I do so, because God told me to. God knows better, so I do it.

In light of this way of thinking, the question is whether I am a loving person, or just an obedient one. Is obedience to God equal to love? Are there different expressions of love? As I said, I am not very emotional, but I am duty-driven. Is duty an expression of love it its own way? Or am I cold-hearted and just good at following orders? That's what I am wondering.

 

[Dave L]

I do not want to argue that my actions are bad. God-centered reasoning is of the Spirit and a gift of God to cherished and used.
You mention loving your neighbour. Personally, I do not really feel "love" for my neighbour. However, I will always help if I can, I will be happy to work and even suffer so that he won't have to, I will forgive and not take action out of anger if I am wronged by him and I will not be looking for a reward, because being able to do God's will is its own reward.
While it may qualify as loving my neighbour, the center of that action is not the neighbour. It is God. I do so, because God told me to. God knows better, so I do it.

In light of this way of thinking, the question is whether I am a loving person, or just an obedient one. Is obedience to God equal to love? Are there different expressions of love? As I said, I am not very emotional, but I am duty-driven. Is duty an expression of love it its own way? Or am I cold-hearted and just good at following orders? That's what I am wondering.

The problem is that the Jews kept the Law externally for self serving reasons. Be good and prosper vs be bad and die or loose your property. But love naturally keeps the Law, even if never having heard it.

 

[Gell]

First, how do you define love?
From I have read from the Bible, Jesus Christ said that if we love Him, we should follow His commands/teachings.
Love is not an emotion or just a meaningless word as it is defined in our current age by society.

Second, did you know that the Hebrew word ''Avodah'' means worship, work and service all the same time? So yes, I believe that each day, in how we live our lives, in how we serve the Lord and other people is an act of worship. I believe John Piper has a sermon about this.
Hope this helps you a bit.

 

[razzelflabben]

I have been thinking about my relationship with God and there is one issue, that I find difficult to address. You see, if I were to describe my relationship with Him, "love" wouldn't be the word. The thing is, I find it very hard to define love and it is not a word I very often. No, the first words to come to mind are "logic" and "duty-driven".

Let me elaborate. Some say I have a strong faith. Have I though? I mean, I know that I am a sinner and that I am condemned. I know that Christ is the way out. Why would I not believe in Christ and value his sacrifice for us? Seems logical to me. Also, God said what He'll do. What reason is there to doubt Him?
Some say that I have a strong will. Do I though? God is my fathet and my boss. Thus, what God says, goes. Why would I want to defy the words and will of my superior? Why would I carry on with certain activities if it offends him? Doing so would defy logic and would not be profitable.
Some say I am very humble. Am I though? I know very well that all good things are of God. They aren't mine. Why take credit or give in to pride?
Some say I have a strong drive. Do I? It is written that much is expected of him who had been given much. There is also the parable of the talents. I have received a lot of talents. Ergo, much is expected. Thus I attempt to make the most of it.

You get the picture. I can't say that I am overflowing with overwhelming love. I am a very pragmatic person and I rarely listen to emotions when stacked against reason. Many actions just seem logical and the most beneficial.

However, the bible often talks about love and I can't help but feel that I missed something or conclude that I am an unloving person and that I follow God because of self preservation.

Any advice how to approach this issue?
Thanks

Edit: Another thing to mention is that I do not care a lot about Sunday worship. I am not into sing song and dancing. To me, worship is every single action of every single moment. I do not see the purpose of singing when I can go outside and be a light to the world, help others and increase my faith. To me, a church community is best used for discussing theology, discerning the will of God and applying it to our lives. Again, something people define as love is absent in me. I seem to work differently. But is it good? That's the question.

From what you say here you are applying the worldly definition to love when God says the Love we are to have is Agape. I Cor. 13 lists characteristics of Love but let me offer you the only definition I can find to Agape Love....Love is putting another above self in an act of humility, creating a covenant whose intent/purpose is reconciliation/restoration.

As best I can tell from your post...Love defines your relationship with God it's just not the worlds love which is exactly how it should be.

 

[razzelflabben]

I do not want to argue that my actions are bad. God-centered reasoning is of the Spirit and a gift of God to cherished and used.
You mention loving your neighbour. Personally, I do not really feel "love" for my neighbour. However, I will always help if I can, I will be happy to work and even suffer so that he won't have to, I will forgive and not take action out of anger if I am wronged by him and I will not be looking for a reward, because being able to do God's will is its own reward.
While it may qualify as loving my neighbour, the center of that action is not the neighbour. It is God. I do so, because God told me to. God knows better, so I do it.

In light of this way of thinking, the question is whether I am a loving person, or just an obedient one. Is obedience to God equal to love? Are there different expressions of love? As I said, I am not very emotional, but I am duty-driven. Is duty an expression of love it its own way? Or am I cold-hearted and just good at following orders? That's what I am wondering.

John 14:15....

btw, what is your goal with your neighbor when you give to them. I know you said it was out of obedience but what do you want your neighbor to take from it?

 

[frater_domus]

John 14:15....

btw, what is your goal with your neighbor when you give to them. I know you said it was out of obedience but what do you want your neighbor to take from it?

That is something I rarely think about, seeing I usually direct thoughts towards God and His glory. To witness the goodness of God, I suppose. I like to see myself as an instrument of God, to be used for His purposes. It is my hope that my actions can inspire others to glorify God or enable God to reach out to others through me. In the act of helping, there is God and the recipient. I am the means by which is happens.
Naturally, I want the person to better off or just have a pleasant experience. However, this is usually secondary to the the God-centered thinking above.

But as I said, helping has become habitual and as such I do rarely think of why I do it. I just do it.

This raises another issue though. Writing this above, I noticed that I can be quite distanced from people, even those close to me. I spend so much time trying to follow God and on my own journey, that other people become an afterthought. I think this is definitely an area that needs improvement.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

The way I perceive it, love and logic are compatible and in perfect harmony. The problem isn't with love or logic, but is within me. One of my problems might have to do with an OCD tendency which causes problems with balance and focus with most anything and everything. Another problem is the continual war against the flesh and devil and when and where I cave into temptation. In other words, problems with love and logic can arise out of sinful desires whether they are acted upon or not. So it is with all men.

 

[razzelflabben]

That is something I rarely think about, seeing I usually direct thoughts towards God and His glory. To witness the goodness of God, I suppose. I like to see myself as an instrument of God, to be used for His purposes. It is my hope that my actions can inspire others to glorify God or enable God to reach out to others through me. In the act of helping, there is God and the recipient. I am the means by which is happens.
Naturally, I want the person to better off or just have a pleasant experience. However, this is usually secondary to the the God-centered thinking above.

exactly...look at the definition I offered up...the goal is reconciliation/restoration...this is first to God and second to everyone else. By you talk about obedience to God and their seeing God in you, you are testifying to the Love that scripture tells us to have for God and one another as well.

There is a modern day teaching that our salvation and even experience with God is all about emotions and that gets us all off track as to what Love is and what God wants from us. In fact, the all emotional experience is in my opinion, a tool of satan for it takes our attention off of God and puts it on us.

But as I said, helping has become habitual and as such I do rarely think of why I do it. I just do it.

This raises another issue though. Writing this above, I noticed that I can be quite distanced from people, even those close to me. I spend so much time trying to follow God and on my own journey, that other people become an afterthought. I think this is definitely an area that needs improvement.

I wouldn't argue that you don't need to focus on others more, that is between you and God so I will leave that part but...you are right to say that we do need to focus on others but ONLY while focusing on God. IOW's our sight should always be first and foremost on what glorifies God but while doing that, He tells us to care for others, to serve Him by serving them.

May you discover the wonders of God as you grow ever closer to Him.