Rejection of Mary as your mediator (2)

MamaZ · Sep 30, 2008

The fleshly body of Christ carried the word of God.. For more than 9 months.. For 30 some odd years the word was flesh.. Then He layed His life down for His sheep and rose on the third day with an uncorruptable Body. Then He ascended to the Father where He is seated on the right hand side of God. For there is only one Mediator between man and God.. Christ Jesus the Lord.

katholikos · Sep 30, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
Does that mean you will send the same kind of rep message ya sent me ....,

Don't forget your post which precipitated that message

I say, if you cook it, you eat it, and if you don't like the dish, don't serve it to others. The difference between you and me is, if I'm gonna insult you, I do it outright - I don't muddy the insult up in cryptic language to skirt the rules like you did

katholikos · Sep 30, 2008

MamaZ said:
The fleshly body of Christ carried the word of God......

That is a theological error. Christ's human and divine natures are perfectly joined in one person, and you cannot seperate them out. This union is called the Hypostatic Union, a theological term used with reference to the Incarnation to express the revealed truth that in Christ one person subsists in two natures, the Divine and the human. Hypostasis means, literally, that which lies beneath as basis or foundation.

This is why, incidentally, Mary was procalimed Theotokos. It was not for the purpose of elevating Mary: It was for the purpose of defending the doctrine that Christ was truly God, by saying that Mary bore God in her womb.

So Christ did not "carry" the Word. Christ WAS the Word, and Mary carried the word in her womb, thus making her the Ark of the New Covenant. Just as the ark of the Mosaic Covenant carried the word in stone tablets, the ark of the New Covenant carrie the "Word became flesh" (John 1:14).

(NOTE: The scripture says "Word became flesh", it does not say that flesh carries the word.)

Philothei · Sep 30, 2008

katholikos said:
.

Read this LINK

I do not read RC apologetics my friend....If you wish you can say whatever you have to say and I would be glad to answer you...

katholikos · Sep 30, 2008

Philothei said:
I do not read RC apologetics my friend....If you wish you can say whatever you have to say and I would be glad to answer you...

That was a post generally for all; It wasn't singling out you.

Why not read other stuff? I've read other peoples stuff.

MamaZ · Sep 30, 2008

katholikos said:
That is a theological error. Christ's human and divine natures are perfectly joined in on person, and you cannot seperate them out. This union is called the Hypostatic Union, a theological term used with reference to the Incarnation to express the revealed truth that in Christ one person subsists in two natures, the Divine and the human. Hypostasis means, literally, that which lies beneath as basis or foundation.

This is why, incidentally, Mary was procalimed Theotokos. It was not for the purpose of elevating Mary: It was for the purpose of defending the doctrine that Christ was truly God, by saying that Mary bore God in her womb.

So Christ did not "carry" the Word. Christ WAS the Word, and Mary carried the word in her womb, thus making her the Ark of the New Covenant. Just as the ark of the Mosaic Covenant carried the word in stone tablets, the ark of the New Covenant carrie the "Word became flesh" (John 1:14).

(NOTE: The scripture says "Word became flesh", it does not say that flesh carries the word.)

Tee hee it also states that the word was with God before He became flesh.. Jesus is indeed God in the flesh. But it was not Mary that made Him God for He was already God.. Mary was the earthly Mother of Jesus..

Annolennar · Sep 30, 2008

MamaZ said:
Tee hee it also states that the word was with God before He became flesh.. Jesus is indeed God in the flesh. But it was not Mary that made Him God for He was already God.. Mary was the earthly Mother of Jesus..

Another theological error right there. At what point did anyone say that Mary made God?

Theotokos means God-bearer, and a mother, even a normal one, we know is just the bearer of something that God Himself has made.

So this doesn't actually contradict/disprove anything katholikos said. Just pointing that out.

MamaZ · Sep 30, 2008

Another error.. Our God is a triune God.. Therefore she is not the Mother of God.. She is the mother of Jesus.. Never spoken of in scripture as the mother of God..

Annolennar · Sep 30, 2008

MamaZ said:
Another error.. Our God is a triune God.. Therefore she is not the Mother of God.. She is the mother of Jesus.. Never spoken of in scripture as the mother of God..

Another error!

The three "persons" of God are indivisible. If she is the Mother of one person (Christ), and Christ is true God, then it is acceptable to say that she is the Mother of God. To say otherwise is a logical fallacy of either composition or division (depending on how it is being argued) about the nature of the Trinity.

MamaZ · Sep 30, 2008

So Mary is then the mother of 1\3 of the Godhead meaning she is the earthly mother of Christ Jesus the risen King.. Meaning she is the mother of His humanity because HE was before he became Flesh.. For she bore the earthly body of Christ.. His Spiriutal body was before He became flesh. This is why His kingdom is not of this world and why we are not to know men according to the flesh.. For Christ true reign and rule is a Spiritual Kingdom.. Not built with the hands of men. Hebrews is also an awesome read..We see many times in the OT where He was called the Angel of the Lord.. He is called Emmanuel on earth meaning Christ is with us.. Now He is the risen King and seated on the right hand side of God. the Mediator between God and men..

Rdr Iakovos · Sep 30, 2008

MamaZ said:
So Mary is then the mother of 1\3 of the Godhead meaning she is the earthly mother of Christ Jesus the risen King.. Meaning she is the mother of His humanity because HE was before he became Flesh.. For she bore the earthly body of Christ.. His Spiriutal body was before He became flesh. This is why His kingdom is not of this world and why we are not to know men according to the flesh.. For Christ true reign and rule is a Spiritual Kingdom.. Not built with the hands of men. Hebrews is also an awesome read..We see many times in the OT where He was called the Angel of the Lord.. He is called Emmanuel on earth meaning Christ is with us.. Now He is the risen King and seated on the right hand side of God. the Mediator between God and men..

Do you not understand, dear one, that God is not divided? A fraction, consisting of a numerator and a denominator, is in point of fact, a mathematical operation of DIVISION (1 divided by 3, in your example).

There can be no "1/3 of the Godhead." "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father." Their persons are distinct, yet undivided, just as Christ's natures were distinct, yet undivided.

Think of it this way: When you are quiet, sometimes you hear your own inner voice. So one is thinking, and one listening- yet are these divided? Is thinking 1/2 of your person? There can be no such ratio, for you think from who you are, and are as you think.

Regarding mothers, bodies, and spirits:
Do you indeed have a spirit? And is that spirit wed at this time to your fleshly body?
Do you only resemble your mother physically, or in your personality? Even human spirit was NEVER intended to be torn from its flesh, this is a consequence of the Fall.
Our mothers carry us- body and spirit- and bear us forth, flesh and spirit. No human or divine spirit can be born in flesh without the mother being its mother indeed.

You say His kingdom is not of this world, quoting Jesus' answer o Pilate and to the Pharisees. But His kingdom is in this world "for now have the kingdoms of this world become the Kingdom of our God." When He said that His kingdom was not of this world, what He was saying is that His Kingdom is not WORLDLY. He did not say that said Kingdom was not in this world, in fact, He taught us to pray that His Kingdom would come. "The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof."

Your perspective here has indicated a certain other error on your part, that of Gnosticism and its false condemnation of things material.

One last thing: He is not seated at the right hand side of God, as a sort of Divinen wingman, two pals side by side. Rather, He is seated at the right hand of the Father, meaning He is the power and oath of the Father.

Best regards

katholikos · Sep 30, 2008

MamaZ said:
...she is not the Mother of God.. She is the mother of Jesus......

...and Jesus is God, therfore she is the mother of God.

You must understand the classical sense of mothering. To mother is to "bear" and "nurture", whereas to father is to "originate." So, Mary did not "originate" God, she "bore" God in her womb and nurtered him in the person of Jesus, who is fully God and fully man.

Mother of God.

.

Brennin · Sep 30, 2008

Annolennar said:
Theotokos means God-bearer...

Yes, and it is a fundamentally heathen concept.

katholikos · Sep 30, 2008

Annolennar said:
Theotokos means God-bearer,

Brennin said:
Yes, and it is a fundamentally heathen concept.

WHAT? Did or did not Mary bear God incarnate in her womb ?

Brennin · Sep 30, 2008

katholikos said:
WHAT? Did or did not Mary bear God incarnate in her womb ?

Mary bore Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Logos, in her womb. Thus, she is Christotokos.

Photini · Sep 30, 2008

katholikos said:
WHAT? Did or did not Mary bear God incarnate in her womb ?

Look at his siggy. That should explain things.

Brennin · Sep 30, 2008

Photini said:
Look at his siggy. That should explain things.

Yes, although the dispute over Theotokos vs. Christotokos came after Arius.

Kristos · Sep 30, 2008

St Nestorius?

Brennin · Sep 30, 2008

Kristos said:
St Nestorius?

The Assyrian Church of the East considers Nestorius a saint, yes.

katholikos · Sep 30, 2008

Brennin said:
Mary bore Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Logos, in her womb. Thus, she is Christotokos.

Word games. Semantics. Jesus is God come in the flesh, God incarnate, and Mary bore him in her womb. Therefore she is the God-bearer.

Photini said:
Look at his siggy. That should explain things.

Ahh, I see. Denying that Christ is God is what the Jehova's Witnesses do, which is why they are outside the bounds of Christianity

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