Reincarnation

[Robban]

Hi folks,
Because of a decree of the fifth Catholic Council declaring reincarnation to be heresy, it seems to be tabu to even think or talk about it. But it seems to tie up many loose ends concerning Jesus words,NT and life itself.
Reincarnation has been a tenet in Othodox Judaism for thousands of years and continues to this very day. I know from experience that in a "churchy atmosphere" some things things people just do not say, you must not even think that way, but we do. Im not letting go of the idea that Jesus ties in somewhere. So the question is not to "Christianity" as such, but to you Folks as personal Christians. What are your views? Is it a case of not wanting to spill the beans?
Regards
Robban.

 

[seashale76]

It is my understanding that reincarnation was not a belief of Judaism until sometime after the Jerusalem Talmud. It doesn't appear in the Talmud or earlier writings at all. The Jerusalem Talmud wasn't around before the death of Christ. The idea of reincarnation in Judaism wasn't around until after Christianity was well established. Think Kabbalah- which is purely medieval.

Christians don't believe this and it has never been part of the Tradition of the Church. Indeed, our Holy Scriptures also negate the idea of reincarnation.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Robban]

The Torah was given to Moses, by God,accompanied by an oral counterpart, the Oral Torah. The oral traditions, combined with the rabbinical enactments, form the Talmud and much of the rest of Jewish literature. Many concepts are alluded to in the written law, they were only recorded fully in subsequent writings.Reincarnation is one
such concept.
The question was, How do you as a personal Christian veiw reincarnation? Not how others veiw it.
Regards
Robban.

 

[Celticflower]

How do I view reincarnation?

A neat plot device for fantasy novels and movies.

 

[JT912]

It is heretical bottom line. The word of God is the final authority and it is only appointed for a man to die once and then go to judgement. Anyone who accepts Christ recieves salvation. Works are cancelled out because of Grace. Reincarnation is a principle based on works. If one has good enough works he may come back after death to try his fate again and hopefully as a human and not a frog lol. No, Jesus cancelled out works on the Cross therefore since reincarnation is a works based principle it doesn't add up to God's plan of redemption.

 

[Robban]

I wasnt thinking in terms of returning as an animal or fish, more the soul returnjng into a body, a new body. I know the term. reincarnation, make some people shudder.
To be fair, I do not want to intrude on anyone. But I dont think Life is about joining a club, where someone thinks for you. No living person today beleives they are alive, they/we all know it to be a fact. Which bring up another question. Have we each a pourpose in life, or is the world just one big playground?

 

[salida]

Its one big fable!

 

[Robban]

Well so far some beleive it to be a fable, fantasy. Dont know about you folks, but I get out a lot, I nod, smile, talk to people I never knew before, you know a smile opens many doors. When we get into life in general, you would be suprised just how many veiw life as, A flower, you just shoot up, bloom, wither down and die, thats it. And then you ask "Thats it?". Sure they reply "Thats it,finito,end of story". I find this amazing. On the one hand, you have the "Church", painting a picture of hell,demons,fire and creepy crawlys with sharp teeth. And yet the man on the street says, "Yeah, I know but who is supposed to beleive that".
Robban.

 

[seashale76]

The Torah was given to Moses, by God,accompanied by an oral counterpart, the Oral Torah. The oral traditions, combined with the rabbinical enactments, form the Talmud and much of the rest of Jewish literature. Many concepts are alluded to in the written law, they were only recorded fully in subsequent writings.Reincarnation is one
such concept.
The question was, How do you as a personal Christian veiw reincarnation? Not how others veiw it.
Regards
Robban.

I thought it was important to note that reincarnation isn't something that all Jews believe- and it certainly wasn't en vogue before the third century (C.E.).

Your question was answered. As a Christian I adhere to the Tradition of the Church. That is my personal view of reincarnation as well. Here it is again, in case you missed it:

Christians don't believe this and it has never been part of the Tradition of the Church. Indeed, our Holy Scriptures also negate the idea of reincarnation.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[ebia]

Hi folks,
Because of a decree of the fifth Catholic Council declaring reincarnation to be heresy, it seems to be tabu to even think or talk about it. But it seems to tie up many loose ends concerning Jesus words,NT and life itself.

Um, not it doesn't - it runs in completely the opposite direction to the metanarrative of scripture and the idea of resurrection which is absolutely central to Christianity. Resurrection, as historically understood, and reincarnation are completely incompatible, and since resurrection is a fundamental non-negotiable of Christianity on which everything else is built, reincarnation is a non-topic.

Reincarnation has been a tenet in Othodox Judaism for thousands of years and continues to this very day.

Ideas akin to reincarnation show up in some hellenised Jewish thinking - to call it "a tenet in Orthodox Judaism for thousands of years" is, at best, highly misleading.

I know from experience that in a "churchy atmosphere" some things things people just do not say, you must not even think that way, but we do. Im not letting go of the idea that Jesus ties in somewhere. So the question is not to "Christianity" as such, but to you Folks as personal Christians. What are your views? Is it a case of not wanting to spill the beans?

I believe in the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth as the anticipation of the future resurrection of all God's people. That leaves no room for reincarnation.

 

[Robban]

I thought it was important to note that reincarnation isn't something that all Jews believe- and it certainly wasn't en vogue before the third century (C.E.).

Your question was answered. As a Christian I adhere to the Tradition of the Church. That is my personal view of reincarnation as well. Here it is again, in case you missed it:

Christians don't believe this and it has never been part of the Tradition of the Church. Indeed, our Holy Scriptures also negate the idea of reincarnation.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Hi seashale,
It would sadden me if I thought I answered you harshly. If I have, then Im truly sorry. It is true, not all Jews beleive in reincarnation, but that cannot be taken as a barometer, Not all Jews beleivei n anything at all, never opened a Bible, some have even an aethist veiw on life, he may even eat a ham sandwich on Yom Kippur, he is still a Jew. Born a Jew. die a Jew.
What surprised me, was to discover a decree which stated that, reincarnation is heresy.
Would like share something from which I have here before me,about the first "beleivers".They were Jews who who beleived in reincarnation and taught a special form of "resurrection" which had to do with becoming "born again".
Regards
Robban.

 

[Robban]

Um, not it doesn't - it runs in completely the opposite direction to the metanarrative of scripture and the idea of resurrection which is absolutely central to Christianity. Resurrection, as historically understood, and reincarnation are completely incompatible, and since resurrection is a fundamental non-negotiable of Christianity on which everything else is built, reincarnation is a non-topic.


Ideas akin to reincarnation show up in some hellenised Jewish thinking - to call it "a tenet in Orthodox Judaism for thousands of years" is, at best, highly misleading.



I believe in the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth as the anticipation of the future resurrection of all God's people. That leaves no room for reincarnation.

Hi eb, how are things "downunder",(just kidding).
You know what, think I will have to drop the the whole question.
For the first, it was a "no-goer" from the start, second too intimate. Still friends?.
Regards
Robban.

 

[JasperJackson]

Simple arithmetic points out a problem with reincarnation. The population is increasing, so there just aren't enough souls going around for all the new babies being born. Perhaps some babies get a new soul and some get a second-hand soul?

And what about the black death? That reduced the world population by up to 100 million people. Where did those souls go? A big soul storage container?

 

[Robban]

Simple arithmetic points out a problem with reincarnation. The population is increasing, so there just aren't enough souls going around for all the new babies being born. Perhaps some babies get a new soul and some get a second-hand soul?

And what about the black death? That reduced the world population by up to 100 million people. Where did those souls go? A big soul storage container?

Hi JJ,
Did you know crazy people were not affected by the black death.
But seriously, If one beleives thati it is here where its at, Today we are about 6 billion plus all the others who have gone before us. When the big day comes,How on earth shall we have room on earth? My line of thinking is, the body is a garment for the soul. Like a glove lying on a table, it is dead, lifeless, but when a hand comes into the glove it comes alive. where the hand goes the glove goes, for a certain amount of time. Then its time for the soul to return back. If however the soul has not fufilled its missionl it most probably will have to come down again and do whatever is left for it to do, but not in the same glove because that glove has already started to dissintigrate. If the soul is eternal. Origenes was a respected scholar,
until he started talking in these terms, then he was rejected by most everyone.
Regards
Robban. btw I wrote my line thinking, an overstatement. Didnt know a better way to put it.

 

[norswede]

Hi folks,
Because of a decree of the fifth Catholic Council declaring reincarnation to be heresy, it seems to be tabu to even think or talk about it. But it seems to tie up many loose ends concerning Jesus words,NT and life itself.
Reincarnation has been a tenet in Othodox Judaism for thousands of years and continues to this very day. I know from experience that in a "churchy atmosphere" some things things people just do not say, you must not even think that way, but we do. Im not letting go of the idea that Jesus ties in somewhere. So the question is not to "Christianity" as such, but to you Folks as personal Christians. What are your views? Is it a case of not wanting to spill the beans?
Regards
Robban.

I don't know for certain but science has supposedly proven that we inherit memories in our genetic code from our ancestors. This is how they explain the past life memories.

 

[ebia]

Hi eb, how are things "downunder",(just kidding).
You know what, think I will have to drop the the whole question.
For the first, it was a "no-goer" from the start, second too intimate. Still friends?.
Regards
Robban.

I'm not offended by someone asking the question, I'm just trying to get across at what level it doesn't fit into Christian thinking. You can't tweak Christianity a bit and fit in reincarnation, you actually have to take out one of the foundation stones.

 

[Robban]

I don't know for certain but science has supposedly proven that we inherit memories in our genetic code from our ancestors. This is how they explain the past life memories.

Hi norswede,
Science maybe, shouldnt be ignored. There is a way of looking at things that are happening before our very eyes. Elijah the prophet spoke to Rabbi Shimon bar Yohai, author of the Zohar about these times. But not too sure if it would be appreciated on this forum.Anyway, there will be some challenges on the way, and a couple of big issues that need to be taken care of. Btw, Elijah never died, He can pop up anywhere, at least twice in the NT. But the outcome will be good, I am convinced anyway.

Regards
Robban.

 

[Bro_Sam]

So the question is not to "Christianity" as such, but to you Folks as personal Christians. What are your views? Is it a case of not wanting to spill the beans?

The Bible simply doesn't allow for the possibility of reincarnation. It is very clear that we die once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27) and it never mentions people having a second chance at life or coming back as different people or animals.

Matthew 25:46 specifically tells us that believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go onto eternal punishment. Reincarnation has been a popular belief for thousands of years, but it has never been accepted by Christians or followers of Judaism because it is contradictory to Scripture.

What's more, what would be the point of reincarnation in a Christian context? The whole point of reincarnation is to keep being reborn until you prove yourself worthy of reaching Nirvana. Christianity is very clear that we're sinners, that it is in our nature to keep on sinning, and that there is nothing we can do in this life or in another or in the afterlife to make ourselves worthy.

Reincarnation would be like the myth of Sisyphus. Sisyphus was cursed by the gods to roll a boulder up Mt. Olympus. However, every time he neared the top, the boulder would roll back down the hill and he'd have to start all over again.

It would be the same with us. Even if we could go for a little while without sin, God's holiness is so great and His standard so high that even one sin would cause the "boulder" of our sinless works to roll down the hill and we would be damned all over again.

That's why we need Christ, and not another chance to prove ourselves worthy. There's nothing we can do to make ourselves righteous. Only Christ is righteous and the only chance we have for salvation is to be born again and have His righteousness imputed to us.

 

[Robban]

Hi Bro Sam.
Thank you for taking your time in replying. Actually I had sghed a big sigh of releif a couple of days ago. Realizjng that this was a subject which not accepted in certain groups,(for lack of another word). But it was kind of you to explain.
Regards
Robban.

 

[Lilo]

Hi Bro Sam.
Thank you for taking your time in replying. Actually I had sghed a big sigh of releif a couple of days ago. Realizjng that this was a subject which not accepted in certain groups,(for lack of another word). But it was kind of you to explain.
Regards
Robban.

Hi Robban,
I asked afew questions on Reincarnation in a different topic, and people answered them for me.
A post on this one says that there can be no room for reincarnation in Christianity. I was told (not on here) that Jesus had reincarnated and that was when he rose from the dead, and that Jesus was like the Incarnate of God. May you please explain which is right/wrong and why?

Also, If you have questions on Reincaration in Buddhism, I would be happy to answer them ...Please, Im not looking for a debate, I'm here to learn...

Nice to meet you!
-Lilo