Reincarnation is FALSE. Resurrection is TRUE.

[HSong]

I’m very STRICT when it comes to salvation, because many have been misled by damnable works salvation! The Gospel is so simple, so beautiful. Simply believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone and be saved, and all will be born again, resurrected.



Base12, a believer in reincarnation, mentions “The Resurrection of the Damned are those that will be thrown into the Lake of Fire to be born again here on Earth. The Lake of Fire is simply a portal that the Unsaved pass through.”



Born again means to believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone to be saved! Saying that the Damned need to go through a Lake of Fire and be born over and over again on Earth is FALSE! That’s works salvations! We don’t need to be reborn over and over again to be saved, there’s nothing our own works can do to save us, we only need to believe in Jesus Christ and be saved! That’s it. And when someone sins, they suffer the wages of sin, which is permanent death. And they stay dead until they believe in Jesus Christ and are brought back to life AGAIN, and stay in that life permanently.



Base 12 says “'He can bring the dead up' <- That would be one time, as in a single life and resurrection.

'He can bring the dead up again' <- That would be more than one time, as in multiple lives and resurrections.”



FALSE! Here’s the true definition:

'He can bring the dead up' <- That would be one time, as in a single life and resurrection.

'He can bring the dead up again' <- That would be being born one time, dying, and then being born AGAIN.”



MULTIPLE RESURRECTIONS!?!? There is only one resurrection, and that’s when someone believes in Jesus Christ with faith alone they are PERMANENTLY saved. They stay in the “Resurrected” forever. Because the Holy Spirit resides inside them PPERMANENTLY. The Holy Spirit cannot leave the body of a believer once it goes inside them. And a person cannot come back to life unless they have the Holy Spirit inside them. Thus, the Holy Spirit goes inside them, and then stays inside them, and they are permanently alive.



Resurrection is true, which is defined as, someone having any sin which results in death, like Original Sin, which we?re all born with. Those who believe in Christ with faith alone in this life are resurrected from Sheol, the realm of the dead. Those who did not believe in Christ with faith alone in this life, will stay in Sheol until they are convinced to believe in Jesus with faith alone and are saved.



1 Cor. 15:22 "Since by man came death, by man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam ALL died, even so in Christ ALL shall be made alive."



Reincarnation, as defined as works salvation, which is, someone somehow escaping Sheol without faith alone in Christ is false. The only way we can be free from the Realm of the Dead, aka death, is to trust in Jesus Christ with faith only, no works salvation. When someone dies they cannot come back to life without Christ. It?s only Jesus Christ who raises the dead. And eventually, everyone will believe in Christ and be raised from the dead.



Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.

1 Samuel 2:6 The Lord kills and he gives life, he sends down to Sheol, he can bring the dead up again.



The word ?again? here shows that the people in Sheol only died one time due to sin. Because the only way to be raised from the dead is through faith alone in Jesus. And when we believe in Jesus, we are permanently saved, we cannot lose our salvation! So when we are brought back to life after death, resurrected, we stay alive permanently.

Christ only died one time on the cross, and then was resurrected 3 days later, because He paid for the wages of sin, which is a one time death. Jesus did not have to keep coming back to life and dying over and over again, He only died once.

Essentially it follows this flow chart.



Man created -> Man dies from sin -> Man in Sheol -> Man Believes in Christ -> Man made alive permanently.



Christ exists -> Christ died for sin -> Christ preaches to the dead -> Christ convinces Man to believe in Him -> Christ gives permanent life to man.



PSALM 139:8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there.



Bed singular, one bed.



Andrew, yet another believer in reincarnation, says “The understanding that God has revealed to me is that reincarnation is real and that after a person dies he either goes to heaven or hell. After the penalty is paid in hell,

FALSE. Reincarnation is a LIE. The ONLY way to pay the penalty of our sins is faith alone in Jesus Christ! This is ABSOLUTE truth. It’s IMPOSSIBLE for us to pay the penalty ourselves, Jesus Christ’s blood on the cross is the only thing that can wash away all of our sins!



Andrew says” they are reincarnated into a suitable body and place and be given another chance. “

ANOTHER CHANCE!?!? The only way we can have another chance is through faith alone in Jesus Christ. Anything else is damnable works salvation, I say this kindly.



“Those who make it to heaven are given the choice if they want to return, and then with an angel plan out their life if they so choose.”

First off, the only way to make it to Heaven is through faith alone in Jesus Christ. Everyone is RESURRECTED when they are saved by faith alone, and that form that’s free of sin is PERMANENT! Just like with OSAS, once saved always saved, how, when we believe in Christ, the Holy Spirit PERMANENTLY comes into us.

It’s like how people were resurrected after Jesus’ death and walked around the Earth. They weren’t reincarnated, they had resurrected forms, because they believe in Christ with faith alone and were saved!



“This would seem to line up with the idea that man is appointed to die once and then judgement. And then he would be a new man in his next life.”

A new man in his next life = RESURRECTION, not reincarnation!

The only way to escape Sheol, the realm of the dead is through faith alone in Jesus Christ!





Overall, here are good thoughts on Tentmaker that summarize it

Reincarnation and hell

Marie Glen says “Besides, reincarnation sounds too messy and disorganized to me.. I take all things in this world with a grain of salt.. I figure if there was reincarnation the Bible would plainly say so”

Dandelion says “One of the reasons I don't believe in reincarnation is because the Bible emphasizes the uniqueness of each one of us.”

Jabcat says “I don't believe in reincarnation. firstly, i think it's speculative at best. secondly, it has too direct ties to false religions imo.”

Cardinal says “The problem with reincarnation is that it puts the responsibility for salvation onto the person, and off Christ, which makes it a work of the flesh. Jesus said we can do NOTHING without Him, and that most assuredly and most importantly includes our salvation. We can never "evolve" to be good enough, I don't care if you had a 1000 lifetimes under your belt.”

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I've found that resurrection applies to humans, and reincarnation applies to angels who we make the acquaintance of unawares.

 

[HSong]

Reincarnation Reply

Hi, thank you for your reply. I appreciate the time you put out into your response. Here is my responses (the quote system only allows one quote at a time I’ve found, so I will quote it via raw text).

Psalm 100:5 For the Lord is good and His love endures forever; His faithfulness continues to all generations.



Meerkat says ”There is a thread about reincarnation, it might be a good idea to discuss it there”

https://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...carnation.html

Since I’m a Universalist, I’m not sure if I’ll be able to post on there, since this is the only Christian Universalism thread that’s allowed.

Romans 11:32: "For God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all."



Base12 says “I too believe that all of Humanity will be Saved eventually.”

That’s good. However, the method that all of humanity is saved is very specific. Jesus is the only way. There’s “Universalists” who believe everyone will be saved eventually, yet they are pluralist, meaning, they believe that there’s multiple paths to Heaven, the “Unitarian Universalists”, which is false. Christ is is the only way to Heaven! Thus all people must be convinced to believe in Jesus Christ through faith alone and be saved. Anything that tries to change that simple method in my eyes is an obstacle that prevents people from being saved. And the trickiest lie is one that’s hidden between two truths.

Hebrews 9:26 “He has put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself”



“The only difference you and I have is the process by which this occurs, hence your question…”

The process is also very important. It’s only through faith alone, not works salvation, in Jesus Christ, that a person is saved. Grace by faith, the free gift.

Galatians 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.



“Technically speaking, becoming Born Again into a Glorified Body is the same thing as reincarnation. In other words, reincarnation is not limited to a corrupt Earthly body.”

Born Again = Resurrection. To define it, when someone is resurrected, they already have a perfect body. There are those in Sheol who sleep, but when they wake up, they don’t have a perfect body yet, they’re stuck in Sheol until they believe with faith alone in Christ and are given that perfect body, resurrected.

When someone comes back to life, they come back by believing in faith alone in Jesus Christ, that washes away ALL their sins. So it’s impossible for someone to come back with a corrupt Earthly body, because ALL of our sins are already washed.

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”







Base 12 says “John 3:4 “Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?” Thus, when Jesus said…



John 3:7 “Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”



…it works both ways. We are either Born Again into another corrupt Earthly body, *OR* we are Born Again into the Glorified Body. Look closely, and you will see *two* choices…



Born again here is used as a metaphor, similar to the parables Jesus spoke through. For instance, Jesus says that parables describe a spiritual concept, a truth that existed since before the world’s foundation, through a physical means. There’s a parable about fabrics, clothes, yet clothes were not present during the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve when they were originally naked. Being born through a womb wasn’t present during the Garden of Eden either, yet it was still a spiritual truth back then, so this tells us that Jesus is referring to the spiritual truth (resurrection) not physical literal interpretation (reincarnation).

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ



Base12 says “*two* choices…John 3:6 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.””

These aren’t choices, these are steps in the same process my friend

Born physical -> Die physical -> Born resurrected

aka

Born of flesh -> Die of flesh -> Born of spirit

And to be born of the spirit, you believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone, and thus you will permanently be in that resurrected state.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.



Job 1:21 “And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”

Job is born naked from mother’s womb -> Job dies -> Job’s spirit is now naked

In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were created naked. Our spirits don’t have physical clothes.

Job’s referring to returning to the NAKEDNESS.

Born Naked -> Die -> Spirit Naked

The Lord planned for Job to born -> The Lord planned for Job to die

The Lord gave Job life-> The Lord takes away Job’s life

Base12 says “ The Unsaved however, will be raised in shame later on, after the thousand years… Daniel 12:2”And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” The Unsaved will be judged according to their works. In other words, there is a type of Karma or ‘reaping what one has sown’ that will be added to their next life. This is how Justice works. This is why we are here. “

First, you are only saved by believing in Jesus Christ, not of their works. The wages of sin is death. That is the punishment for sin, all sin, even one sin. DEATH. The unsaved coming back to life makes NO SENSE because SIN is still in them! DEATH is still in them. They cannot have life until the believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone and are washed away of all their SINS, washed away of all their DEATH.

What is God’s judgement against those who sinned? DEATH! So as long as someone has sin, they stay DEAD.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There it is. Alright, my friend, I knew it. I saw this one coming. The word “karma” is false, it NEVER shows up in the Bible. It’s mostly aligned with Eastern Religions like Hinduism and Buddhism. Karma = WORKS SALVATION. Karma is a false doctrine. Completely false. This proves my suspicions correct, this literally confirms that you’re trying to promote the false doctrine of works salvation. I’m sorry my friend. I care about you, but I must be strict in love and truth.

This “justice” you teach is works salvation! What, you think we can randomly resurrect and do some good works, oh oh, maybe donate to charity or help the poor and be saved by our own will? FALSE. It’s ONLY through faith alone that we are saved my friend! Getting to Heaven is about getting clean, about being washed of sins. If I’m donating to charity and helping the poor and did not believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone, I’m still dirty with sin! And God cannot let any dirty people into Heaven! I need to be washed by the blood of Christ Jesus, sprinkled over the mercy seat of Heaven!

Galatians 2:16 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.



The Law of Reaping and Sowing is true, as in, having any sin results in death. Those who do bad things, like murder, are more likely to find themselves dead sooner rather than later. And in Sheol, the will feel temporary mental anguish over their sins, because they recognize their sins, and this recognition in Sheol, the realm of the dead, is what convinces them to believe in Christ Jesus with faith alone and be saved.

Isaiah 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,



Base12 says “You, Hsong, as a Universalist should know that ‘Punishment’ means Correction… Matthew 25:46 “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” “

The ONLY way we can be corrected is through faith alone in Jesus Christ! Believe in Christ and be washed of all your sins, that’s the ONLY correction! Thinking that you have to go through punishment to somehow purge you of your sins through your own will is FALSE because it’s WORKS SALVATION!

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.



Base12 says” The Unsaved come back here, to be ‘corrected’. Earth is a Correctional Facility.”

There it is THERE IT IS. You literally just promoted works salvation. What? We have to suffer over and over again to be saved? FALSE! Only faith alone in Jesus Christ saves us, only His blood washes away our sins! There’s NOTHING we can do to save ourselves. Our works are like FILTHY RAGS! That term makes reference to menstrual rags, the blood of women, her period blood. The blood of man, the suffering of man cannot save us from sins! It’s ONLY the Blood of Christ, the suffering of Christ on the cross, and believing in Him, that saves us from all of our sins! This is the truth!

Romans 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.



Base12 “Thus, the Lake of Fire is simply a Portal to Moloch, which is Hathor the Golden Calf and Womb of the Earth Mother.”

WHAT!!! WOW WOW WOW. “Moloch”. So, the evil spirit, the demon behind the lie of reincarnation has finally revealed it’s name! And this is an attack on the concept, not you, Base12 my friend. It’s clear now you are held captive by this false doctrine by this “Hathor the Golden Calf” false idol and “Womb of the Earth Mother” false pagan deity. Base12, my friend, I pray to the Lord Christ that you are rescued from this suffering. Because truth is love, and I love you, my friend. Any attacks on the lie of reincarnation will now also be attacks on the false deity Moloch.

1 Kings 11:7 7 On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites

Moloch is a DETESTABLE false god. They sacrificed CHILDREN, they MURDERED CHILDREN, to worship this evil evil false god. Look, Base12, you may know the truth of Christian Universalism, but even King Solomon, the wisest king, falsely worshipped Moloch! These devils are very very tricky! You need to be careful my friend!

Moloch, The Ancient Pagan God Of Child Sacrifice That Demanded Its Offerings Be Burned Alive

Why did people worship Moloch? Because of works salvation! They thought they could sacrifice their children to wash their sins, but the blood of man NEVER washes away sins, it’s ONLY the BLOOD OF CHRIST that washes away our sins. So believe in Jesus Christ and be saved! Do not be tricked into believing this damnable heresy of works salvation.

And with this damnable belief, what, you’re trying to create some sort of PORTAL to MOLOCH!?! Like a pagan summoning ritual? A gateway like with the Nephilim during the Old Testament? Woe woe woe unto the people of Earth. This truly grieves me.

1 Corinthians 15:22-28 All will be made alive in Christ, but each in his own turn and ultimately Christ will subdue all His enemies, eliminate death and God will be all in all.

Base 12 says “Oh, and the phrase ‘Mystery of Iniquity’ is the same as becoming Born Again of corruptible flesh… 2 Thessalonians 2:7 “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.” “

The verse Thessalonians Mystery of Iniquity literally has no connection to being born of corruptible flesh. It’s a nonargument. You could literally replace that word for anything. Like, hey, I found out that the Mystery of Iniquity means icecream sandwiches! Or it means tip toeing through the tulips!

Matthew 19:14 Jesus said, Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.



Base12 “That is what that phrase means. Most Christians have no idea… lol.”

That’s the dangerous thing with these sort of thinkings. The truth is plainly visible, the Gospel, Jesus told us to spread it around the world, to tell everyone about it. To make the truth OBVIOUS and SIMPLE. Even CHILDREN can understand it. That’s how SIMPLE the Gospel truth is! But when you try to make salvation some sort of mystery, how can anyone be saved? And I think that’s Moloch’s, or any other demons strategy here. If they make salvation so confusing, it limits how many people can be saved. No surprise there, the devils are the enemy of Christ after all.

Here is the SIMPLE and OBVIOUS truth. Believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone and be saved. Thus all people will eventually become believers in Christ Jesus of their own free will. You are born, you die from sin, and you are born again (resurrected, permanently washed from sin). That’s it.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,



I pray in the name of the Holy Spirit for these demons to leave my friend Base12. Amen. <3

1 Corinthians 15:22 "In Christ shall all be made alive"

 

[Andrewn]

I’m very STRICT when it comes to salvation, because many have been misled by damnable works salvation! The Gospel is so simple, so beautiful. Simply believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone and be saved, and all will be born again, resurrected.

In its oriental context, reincarnation indeed amounts to works salvation. But you believe in UR and can view reincarnation as an opportunity for unbelievers to come to faith in the Lord Jesus. If it is not seen as works salvation, how does it contradict UR?

I do not support reincarnation or UR. I only see no contradiction between them. Reincarnation is one conceivable mechanism to achieve UR. No?