reincarnation and Christian reincarnation

[juvenissun]

A little or a lot of research into the 'evidence for reincarnation' should get anyone's brain churning. The implications of reincarnation, which might be scientifically proven soon, will be huge. It might lead to people having to change their paradigms (which might actually all become one undeniable system) and rethink everything about our Human and Cosmic Nature.

I don't think it will make a slightest dent on anything. The idea of reincarnation has been FIRMLY believed for thousands of years over a significant part of the world.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Er, no.
That's your summary of what it says based on reading chapter one as a factual account.

Yom (day) can also mean an age/aion or a realm.

Facts & Faith | Does the Hebrew Word “Yom” (Translated “Day&#8221 in Genesis 1 Mean a 24-Hour Day or Something Else?

 

[Albion]

I see your point. But it still does not take the action of RE_incarnation. Merely incarnation will answer that.

I'm glad to have your explanation, but I have to confess to not getting the point that a man might be punished for sin committed by him before his birth if he'd never lived before.

The Bible does support "incarnation", but not "reincarnation".

Fine, but I was asked to explain what kind of a case from scripture has been made by those who believe in it. I wasn't arguing my own beliefs in the matter.

 

[juvenissun]

I'm glad to have your explanation, but I have to confess to not getting the point that a man might be punished for sin committed by him before his birth if he'd never lived before.


Fine, but I was asked to explain what kind of a case from scripture has been made by those who believe in it. I wasn't arguing my own beliefs in the matter.

That is not true. The "person" did live before his birth. However, he should not be a human in his previous life.

 

[Albion]

That is not true. The "person" did live before his birth. However, he should not be a human in his previous life.

Well, to that I will only say the Christians I've read who believe in reincarnation--and there are a few of them--do not take the approach that the person in that verse was a Martian or a moose in another life. That, in fact, would not even be reincarnation.

 

[juvenissun]

Well, to that I will only say the Christians I've read who believe in reincarnation--and there are a few of them--do not take the approach that the person in that verse was a Martian or a moose in another life. That, in fact, would not even be reincarnation.

Yes, the critical question hidden behind is: What was the life before the incarnation if he was not another human?

We have an excellent example (or hint) to answer this question: God incarnated as Lord Jesus.

I certainly do not suggest everyone was God. But there is an excellent alternative to that.

 

[Albion]

Yes, the critical question hidden behind is: What was the life before the incarnation if he was not another human?

.

Actually, the question is simply this: Did the Hebrews believe in reincarnation or not? This verse is offered by Christians who believe in reincarnation as evidence that they did; however, theologians consider that to be a misinterpretation of the verse.

 

[juvenissun]

Actually, the question is simply this: Did the Hebrews believe in reincarnation or not? This verse is offered by Christians who believe in reincarnation as evidence that they did; however, theologians consider that to be a misinterpretation of the verse.

I read that verse this way: It is possible for the person born with defects if his father sinned against God.

I guess Jews could accept that without having any problem.

So, I still fail to see any verse in the OT which implies RE_incarnation.

--------

By the way, could resurrection be interpreted as reincarnation? I think they are entirely two different concept.

 

[Albion]

I read that verse this way: It is possible for the person born with defects if his father sinned against God.

With respect, we've been over this before. The question asked was whether the man was born blind because of : 1) HIS OWN sin or 2) that of his parents. Two possible causes.

We all get the 'sin of the parents' idea, but what do we say of the first possibility--that it was his own sin? They asked this question that way because, presumably, they considered it a possibility. But he could only have been born blind because of his own sin if that sin had occurred before birth, which is to say in a previous life. At least, that is the point made by these folks.

By the way, could resurrection be interpreted as reincarnation? I think they are entirely two different concept.

IMO, resurrection might be considered reincarnation. But it has relevance only if anyone but Christ--and Lazarus--had ever experienced it.

 

[juvenissun]

With respect, we've been over this before. The question asked was whether the man was born blind because of : 1) HIS OWN sin or 2) that of his parents. Two possible causes.

We all get the 'sin of the parents' idea, but what do we say of the first possibility--that it was his own sin? They asked this question that way because, presumably, they considered it a possibility. But he could only have been born blind because of his own sin if that sin had occurred before birth, which is to say in a previous life. At least, that is the point made by these folks.


IMO, resurrection might be considered reincarnation. But it has relevance only if anyone but Christ--and Lazarus--had ever experienced it.

OK, let's assume that Jews do have the idea of reincarnation. If so, how does it work? How many times could a human reincarnate? If it is just once, then it probably should not be called reincarnation.

 

[Albion]

OK, let's assume that Jews do have the idea of reincarnation. If so, how does it work? How many times could a human reincarnate? If it is just once, then it probably should not be called reincarnation.

I don't think that the OT Jews did have such a belief.

All I was doing was pointing to a verse that some people have surmised is evidence that they did.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't think that the OT Jews did have such a belief.

All I was doing was pointing to a verse that some people have surmised is evidence that they did.

So reincarnation is a only very vague idea in Christianity.
However, I do emphasize that the idea of incarnation is much more clearly implied.

The verse we talked about can be reasonably explained by incarnation.

The critical difference between the two is that incarnation is only a one-time deal. But reincarnation means a cyclic process and it presented a much bigger challenge in theology.

 

[Albion]

So reincarnation is a only very vague idea in Christianity.

I wouldn't put it that way. It is firmly rejected by almost all Christians, but there are a tiny number who believe it. Of course, there are a few people who believe just about anything you can imagine.

 

[juvenissun]

I wouldn't put it that way. It is firmly rejected by almost all Christians, but there are a tiny number who believe it. Of course, there are a few people who believe just about anything you can imagine.

OK. But I am kind of fond of this wrong idea. There is a very good reason for human to have this idea. It is wrong, but it strongly suggest something similar should exist. To me, that is the incarnation. Every human being is incarnated from his previous life.

 

[NannaNae]

while my mind screams NO! NO! NO> that is pagan and a wrong idea!
I have had a few ideas I were sure were from God about some concepts that skirt that concept..

not in that same ideas as reincarnation.. not that we come back as a tree or bug or something.

but I do believe Jesus is the son of David who died to redeem David's kingdom so that Solomon could build a temple. I don't like that it sounds kind of reincarnation like.. I hate that.


but I also spent many years praying for babies that I had seen grow up in the spirit and I didn't know who's children they were .. I learned 12 years later who's they were ..
there was 4 boys and one girl I knew she was an abortion.. the others I had suspect were also but I couldn't prove it.

one day the lord asked me to give them a funeral.. so I did I named them and pray for each of them and never saw them again..
until my grand babies were born and the little girl is the spitting image of the little girl I knew was an abortion.

well also another strange coincidence is that I had prayed for and seen grow 4 boys and 1 girl and in a chapel each time I saw them they were older, then a new baby would show up and one of the babies showed up their about 6 weeks apart.. so they were almost like twins and looked it . only one was a little bigger than the other one.


well my grandkids from my son are 4 boys and a girl she is the spitting image of the other one.. and one of middle boys are a set of twins.. but none of them boys look like the other boys.

what does it mean? I don't know !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but I found out 12 years later that they were all abortions. and the
"twins" were really babies aborted 6 weeks apart. and my grandson who are twins one was born 3 lbs one was almost 6 lbs..

I do suspect they are just a gift From God !! because aren't all grandkids a gift from God!!!
.. and that the coincidence is a Kudos from him to me for baring and loving those babies who were not mine.. I carried them in my soul for about 12 years , starting nearly 35 years ago. and for all those years everytime someone even said abortion I had to go outside to cry for them.

so though I am sure there is not reincarnation like a religious on going 'give it another try' until you get it right idea!
I am not so sure about the murdered/ aborted and those who died for sins of others or maybe were sacrificed for other sins ect.. I don't know about those and choose to leave that doctrine in God's hands and out of my pay grade..

 

[Albion]

OK. But I am kind of fond of this wrong idea.

I understand. It would solve some of the problems of getting things right in only one time through life, and it could be seen as a way for God to be just and merciful at once. Still, there are downsides to the reincarnation idea. For instance, how do you really learn anything from your mistakes if you start the next life back as a newborn again.

It is wrong, but it strongly suggest something similar should exist. To me, that is the incarnation. Every human being is incarnated from his previous life.

That sounds like reincarnation to me. More than one = reincarnation, no?

 

[juvenissun]

I understand. It would solve some of the problems of getting things right in only one time through life, and it could be seen as a way for God to be just and merciful at once. Still, there are downsides to the reincarnation idea. For instance, how do you really learn anything from your mistakes if you start the next life back as a newborn again.


That sounds like reincarnation to me. More than one = reincarnation, no?

No. two (incarnation) is NOT the same as more-than-two (re-incarnation).
But, the question you raised could be applied to both situations. Good question.

My answer is: one can NOT learn anything from the previous life. New life will start as a blank page.

This would pose a serious question to re-incarnation. Namely, why bother to make that kind of cyclic life if nothing could be preserved in anyone of the lives? (of course Buddhism has an acceptable explanation to that).
But in the case of incarnation, it would be simpler. Since the first life does not have to be the same "person" to the second life, then the fate to the second life determines the fate of the first life. Nothing needs to be learned or preserved.

 

[NannaNae]

Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
this verse is why I am sure that there is no more than one life as an adult.. to try again ..
but like I said I have no idea about a life that was sacrificed or murdered and wasn't old enough to have been judged because it hasn't had a life to judge..

 

[keith99]

Unless one considers to the "resurrection" to be a form of reincarnation.

Well said.

I was trying to find a footnote (there are no concordances I know of for footnotes) and stumbled on an instance of the dead coming to life from touching the bones Elisha. That would seem to be a real problem if reincarnation was at all the norm.

 

[Albion]

Well said.

I was trying to find a footnote (there are no concordances I know of for footnotes) and stumbled on an instance of the dead coming to life from touching the bones Elisha. That would seem to be a real problem if reincarnation was at all the norm.

Wait a mo. We might say that Christ rising physically from the dead is a case of reincarnation, even though we know that the word normally suggests many lifetimes being lived in succession, etc. And we could throw in Elisha if you wish.

BUT none of that answers the question of whether we all are going to experience this or if the Bible teaches it (including that verse about "What sin of this man...caused him to be born blind?").