Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

[MoreCoffee]

People have a hard time grasping the difference between authority and interpreting said authority. I suppose we could agree that the Constitution, the Bill of Rights are authority in the US.

No, we cannot agree that the USA constitution is authority in the USA but we can point to the supreme court (and the police forces that enforce the decisions of the supreme court) as authority in the USA. The USA constitution is the law which the supreme court interprets. It is the decisions of the supreme court that are enforced as binding authority in the USA. A recent example ought to suffice. The supreme court decided that same sex marriage is a protected 'right' under the USA constitution and therefore that no state in the union may make laws denying that freedom (right) to same sex couples. We need not get bogged down by the technicalities of this particular ruling it is sufficient for my purposes to note the decision and its immediate effect on USA law and law enforcement. It was not the constitution that stopped states from exercising their authority it was the supreme court's decision (interpretation) of the USA constitution that did it.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Then how is it that all these denominations which claim to adhere to Sola Scriptura can't even agree with each other on how to make Kool-Aid?

Because they suffer from the same disease as the parent stock... their names sakes were given light on different subjects to 'protest' against what the church was teaching at the time. Unfortunately, their followers stopped searching for more light and just rested on the laurels of their founding reformers. Hence, while breaking free of some of Rome's teachings, they in effect were still attached to her traditions as a whole. Kinda like a child running away from home and ending up in the back yard... he's still at home.

 

[topcare]

What were the traditions that the apostles were teaching? The words and teachings of Christ. They weren't teaching their own doctrine or even their own understanding, they were lead by the Spirit into all understanding. The point is made when contrasted with the admonition to avoid the traditions taught by men, the doctrines of devils.

Tell me, where in the Bible do we find infant baptism? That sprinkling of water is adequate for the baptism ceremony? The Bible clearly teaches on this subject but the RC/OC and it's adherents say otherwise. Is this the tradition of Christ's teachings or the doctrines of men?

Infant Baptism is easy. St. Paul baptized the jailer whole household, includes babies.

 

[topcare]

I can show you from the Bible everything I believe... you show me what you believe from fallible men's tradition as if it being from the 1st, 2nd or 3rd century somehow gives any validity to it.

So you can show that we are bound to the old law, that Jesus secretly enter a temple in heaven, to start one's own church away from the Church?

 

[topcare]

Then how is it that all these denominations which claim to adhere to Sola Scriptura can't even agree with each other on how to make Kool-Aid?

Of course not. Bible alone is a fools paradise

 

[Fireinfolding]

In 2 Thes 2:5 what things did they orally receive of Paul on 2 Thes 2:1-2:4?

He says remember I told you about this

What does Paul's Oral Tradition say?

 

[topcare]

In 2 Thes 2:5 what things did they orally receive of Paul on 2 Thes 2:1-2:4?

He says remember I told you about this

What does Paul's Oral Tradition say?

Things that the Church holds down till today. Look to the Orthodox Church

 

[Fireinfolding]

Things that the Church holds down till today. Look to the Orthodox Church

I search Catholic sites they seem to be all over the place on it, thought I would get a more sufficient answer from an oral tradition seeing that the church fathers also seemed divided on it

 

[topcare]

I search Catholic sites they seem to be all over the place on it, thought I would get a more sufficient answer from an oral tradition seeing that the church fathers also seemed divided on it

If you want to see Holy Tradition the whole Bible came out of such (not the cut down 66 version). You see Scripture never claimed to be everything but evangelical Christians (man) have made that claim. Scriptures itself says that it is the Church that is the pillar and foundation of truth. Christ left a Church not a book

 

[Fireinfolding]

If you want to see Holy Tradition the whole Bible came out of such (not the cut down 66 version). You see Scripture never claimed to be everything but evangelical Christians (man) have made that claim. Scriptures itself says that it is the Church that is the pillar and foundation of truth. Christ left a Church not a book

Is that an answer?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Anyone else know?

 

[topcare]

Is that an answer?

Yep. If you really desire to know real authentic verifiable Christianity than you should stop by the Traditional Theology sub forum http://www.christianforums.com/forums/traditional-theology.1149/ and ask questions there

 

[Fireinfolding]

I dont believe Paul said that

 

[topcare]

Paul didn't say everything. All the Apostolic Traditions not just Paul's is what Traditional Christians of verifiable authentic Christianity look to.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Paul didn't say everything. All the Apostolic Traditions not just Paul's is what Traditional Christians of verifiable authentic Christianity look to.

What apostolic traditions are those? Certainly not what everyone else calls apostles. The apostles writings are in the book.

 

[topcare]

What apostolic traditions are those? Certainly not what everyone else calls apostles. The apostles writings are in the book.

Follow the true Church, like the Orthodox Church.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Follow the true Church, like the Orthodox Church.

That definately does belong in TT

 

[Fireinfolding]

He wrote,

2 Thes 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

To everything he wrote in the epistle (above that) and some verses after he writes

2 Thes 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

They are always quoting this and then when you ask no one can answer it

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So you can show that we are bound to the old law,

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
The Law is what reveals iniquity in us... the school master. We are not to have a relationship with the Law as the OT Israelites did, but the Law is still in effect if you believe that Jesus pardons us from iniquity. When I sin, how do I know it? The Spirit reveals that I have broken one of the Commandments either in letter or spirit. The Law does nothing for me except reveal my sin... Christ receives my confession and repentance and pardons me. I can provide more scripture on this point if you like.

that Jesus secretly enter a temple in heaven,

Revelation 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Hebrews 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Revelation 8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

to start one's own church away from the Church?

What was the 'Church' in Christs day? The Judaic temple worship, right? Did the early Christians stay within the established Church? They tried but were persecuted out. Sound familiar? Scripture shows us that the apostles went abroad, setting up independent self supporting home church's.
Acts 28:30-31
And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

 

[topcare]

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
The Law is what reveals iniquity in us... the school master. We are not to have a relationship with the Law as the OT Israelites did, but the Law is still in effect if you believe that Jesus pardons us from iniquity. When I sin, how do I know it? The Spirit reveals that I have broken one of the Commandments either in letter or spirit. The Law does nothing for me except reveal my sin... Christ receives my confession and repentance and pardons me. I can provide more scripture on this point if you like.


Revelation 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Hebrews 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Revelation 8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.



What was the 'Church' in Christs day? The Judaic temple worship, right? Did the early Christians stay within the established Church? They tried but were persecuted out. Sound familiar? Scripture shows us that the apostles went abroad, setting up independent self supporting home church's.
Acts 28:30-31
And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

SDA Fantasy