Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

[MoreCoffee]

meh. So you say. It's not what I say or what I think.

Your focus is being right sans reasoning. This thread has reached an end of questioning

 

[Root of Jesse]

1 Timothy 3:14-15.

I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Doesn't say Scripture is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, does it? It says the church...

 

[Standing Up]

I do not believe in SS. The nearest thing to a definition I've seen is in the Westminster Confession of faith first chapter. As for me defining a doctrine/practise or whatever that I do not believe ... meh. But if the folk who say they do believe it refuse to define it then fine. There's nothing to discuss and the verses obviously cannot support an undefined SS that even its advocates are too shy (or ashamed) to define.

So, you can't define SS, you just know the verses don't support your nonexistent definition. Makes perfect sense.

 

[ICXC NIKA]

I do not believe in SS. The nearest thing to a definition I've seen is in the Westminster Confession of faith first chapter. As for me defining a doctrine/practise or whatever that I do not believe ... meh. But if the folk who say they do believe it refuse to define it then fine. There's nothing to discuss and the verses obviously cannot support an undefined SS that even its advocates are too shy (or ashamed) to define.

The Westminster Confession of Faith (1646) was published long after the deaths of Luther and Calvin. The Reformation churches had been established for decades. The WCOF developed out of "Reformed scholasticism" and differed from the more historic understanding of SS that Luther and Calvin espoused. They understood SS linked with the church and its tradition even while opposing some of its institutions. The WCOF implies that one can "deduce" necessary doctrines from "scripture" and treats theology as if it were a branch of mathematics.

Regardless of which view of SS they all subtly incorporate into their theological framework doctrines without a settled canon or authoritative creedal tradition which could never have been produced out of whole cloth without the benefit of the Holy Spirit-directed ecclesiastical infrastructure.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well, none of the SS advocating folk seem keen to define SS. Let's move on

 

[Standing Up]

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice. Sola scriptura does not deny that other authorities govern Christian life and devotion, but sees them all as subordinate to and corrected by the written word of God.
-wiki-

 

[MoreCoffee]

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice. Sola scriptura does not deny that other authorities govern Christian life and devotion, but sees them all as subordinate to and corrected by the written word of God.
-wiki-

Nice quote from wiki, is it your definition of SS or will you back away from it if it is analysed against the holy scriptures and church teaching?

 

[Standing Up]

Nice quote from wiki, is it your definition of SS or will you back away from it if it is analysed against the holy scriptures and church teaching?

Do you agree with the definition? If so, bring forth scriptures that say scripture is insufficient as to doctrine and practice.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do you agree with the definition? If so, bring forth scriptures that say scripture is insufficient as to doctrine and practice.

It looks like a good definition to me, but since I reject the doctrine asking me if it is a good definition of what you claim to believe is odd. Don't you know what you believe about SS? Do you believe the quote you gave is what SS means and that is properly represents what you believe?

 

[Standing Up]

It looks like a good definition to me, but since I reject the doctrine asking me if it is a good definition of what you claim to believe is odd. Don't you know what you believe about SS? Do you believe the quote you gave is what SS means and that is properly represents what you believe?

Moving on, you may bring forth your scripture to denounce scripture alone.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The definition has been posted already and why would anyone post it if they didn't believe it. The definition is the accepted definition of SS

Sola scriptura (Latinablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice. Sola scriptura does not deny that other authorities govern Christian life and devotion, but sees them all as subordinate to and corrected by the written word of God.

The onus is on you to disprove it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Moving on, you may bring forth your scripture to denounce scripture alone.

No, it works the other way around. The one making the claim ought to produce the evidence for it. Your evidently teach and believe SS so where's the scripture that teaches it?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

No, it works the other way around. The one making the claim ought to produce the evidence for it. Your evidently teach and believe SS so where's the scripture that teaches it?

Are you saying you have not read the thread? If you have then then scripture, teaching, and reasonings are there. Anti-SS have provided nothing. This is a waste of my time to post and be ignored. We have been decent enough to provide the teaching and all we get is "you have no definition" When it's provided it's like the teaching never happened :duh:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Are you saying you have not read the thread?

no

 

[Root of Jesse]

Moving on, you may bring forth your scripture to denounce scripture alone.

Done that many times, especially referencing St. Paul, who says to use Scripture and the Traditions I have passed on to you...to Timothy.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The definition has been posted already and why would anyone post it if they didn't believe it. The definition is the accepted definition of SS

Sola scriptura (Latinablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice. Sola scriptura does not deny that other authorities govern Christian life and devotion, but sees them all as subordinate to and corrected by the written word of God.

The onus is on you to disprove it.

See, we go with Sola God. Sola Scriptura is not the Christian doctrine, it is the Protestant doctrine...the Christian doctrine would be that the Word of God alone is the supreme authority...

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Done that many times, especially referencing St. Paul, who says to use Scripture and the Traditions I have passed on to you...to Timothy.

Can you say that any Traditions are God breathed?
They may be inspired but specifically the scripture states that the scripture IS God breathed.

What is God's breathing? It's life, just as God breathed life into Adam and Jesus breathed upon His disciples to recieve the Holy Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit who gives life and the flesh can profit nothing.
Jesus' words, the God breathed words, that He spoke to us are spirit and are life.

The Holy Spirit is the very substance of scripture in which the Spirit lives and breathes. We have to come into contact with scripture to recieve life because it's in the hearing that the Holy Spirit germinates new birth.

Scripture, being the embodiment of the Holy Spirit, as well God's word also encompasses the embodiment of Christ. His name is called the Word of God. We're not to live on bread along but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

In no way does this leave any room for other authority.

2 Timothy 2
2You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.
4 No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer.
5 Similarly, anyone who competes as an athlete does not receive the victor’s crown except by competing according to the rules.
8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel,
9 for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained.
10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

11 Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.

14 Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.​

God's word is not chained but a worker to present themselves as one approved must correctly handle the word of truth. To me that means scripture.

This has been discussed at the point of the thread the quote is from. You had no answer for it so please quit regurgitating the conversation to make it seem like you have something when you don't.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Holy scripture says "And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:3-4 KJV)

Matthew 4:4

Jesus answers by a quotation from Deu_8:3. The chapter sets forth the teaching of the wilderness. The forty years were to the Jews what the forty days are to Jesus. The Lord God proved Israel “to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments or no. And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna … that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word, omitted in Hebr.] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.”

Christ’s test of sonship is obedience and entire trust in God who alone is the giver of every good gift. The devil’s test of sonship is supply of bodily wants, external prosperity, &c.
(The Cambridge Bible Commentary)​

This passage is significant because it says words from the mouth of God and not words written in holy scripture.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Holy scripture says "And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:3-4 KJV)

Matthew 4:4

Jesus answers by a quotation from Deu_8:3. The chapter sets forth the teaching of the wilderness. The forty years were to the Jews what the forty days are to Jesus. The Lord God proved Israel “to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments or no. And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna … that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word, omitted in Hebr.] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.”

Christ’s test of sonship is obedience and entire trust in God who alone is the giver of every good gift. The devil’s test of sonship is supply of bodily wants, external prosperity, &c.
(The Cambridge Bible Commentary)​

This passage is significant because it says words from the mouth of God and not words written in holy scripture.

What does "It is written" mean to you?

 

[MoreCoffee]

What does "It is written" mean to you?

It means what it says; is that a trick question?