Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[lori milne]

No, a true believer can not "loose" salvation. But an unsaved professing Christian, can abandon their profession of faith. It's to those people that the warnings in scripture are for.

Do you think judas was saved before he became a unbeliever considering he hung him self in guilt

 

[Brother Chris]

Do you think judas was saved before he became a unbeliever considering he hung him self in guilt

Judas was never saved. Jesus clearly stated that Judas never believed, John 6:64-70. Again, not everyone that hung around Jesus was a true believer, just like today, not everyone that hangs around the church is truly saved.

 

[lori milne]

Judas was never saved. Jesus clearly stated that Judas never believed, John 6:64-70. Again, not everyone that hung around Jesus was a true believer, just like today, not everyone that hangs around the church is truly saved.

So then do you believe current and future sins are covered meaning you can live in sin and be forgiven or do you repent in an on going manner ?
And then with that is their no fear of God keeping you free from sin.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked this: "I see nothing here about loss of salvation."

Do you believe you can't loose your salvation ?

I prefer answers to my questions before I answer other questions. But, yes, I don't believe that salvation can be lost, for numerous reasons. All found in Scripture.

The gift of God is eternal life, stated in Rom 6:23. And God's gifts are irrevocable, stated in Rom 11:29. This is irrefutable.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul
Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]38-39‬ KJV
If you read youll see it every ware

I don't see loss of salvation anywhere in Scripture. If that idea were true, we'd be seeing it every where in Scripture. But we don't see it any where.

 

[lori milne]

I don't see loss of salvation anywhere in Scripture. If that idea were true, we'd be seeing it every where in Scripture. But we don't see it any where.

Well then the fear of God is wrong and all the verses that sate contrary is a contradiction :/

 

[FreeGrace2]

No, a true believer can not "loose" salvation. But an unsaved professing Christian, can abandon their profession of faith. It's to those people that the warnings in scripture are for.

Just to be clear here, if an unsaved professing Christian simply improves their lifestyle, they will then be saved? How does that work?

If they aren't saved, there is NO AMOUNT of lifestyle change that will save them. Why? Because no one is saved via lifestyle.

Keep in mind what is involved in ALL the warning passages. It is about ceasing to sin. Or to live worthy lives. If those things save, then we don't need to believe in Christ.

But the Bible tells us that we are saved by grace through faith. When the jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved, Paul's answer was clear and to the point: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE saved.

No change in lifestyle, no ceasing to sin. Just believe in Christ.

I am always amazed at the total confusion on this subject of how people are saved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you think judas was saved before he became a unbeliever considering he hung him self in guilt

There is no evidence anywhere in Scripture that he ever believed. In fact, every person is born an unbeliever. So he was always an unbeliever.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well then the fear of God is wrong and all the verses that sate contrary is a contradiction :/

I'm sorry but I don't know what your sentence means. Why would having fear of God be wrong, and what verses state contrary?

Please cite verses to support your statements. That would help a great deal in clarifying your statements.

 

[Brother Chris]

So then do you believe current and future sins are covered meaning you can live in sin and be forgiven or do you repent in an on going manner ?
And then with that is their no fear of God keeping you free from sin.

When Jesus Christ hung on the cross, He paid for all the sins of everyone who will ever be saved, past, present and future. It says in Hebrews that He gave himself up as a sacrifice for sin, once for all time. Jesus is not going to return to earth and die on the cross for your future sins. Therefore, all your sins, past, present and future, were paid for at the cross. A true believer will not continue living in sin. Such a person is not a Christian, and it's contrary the new nature. A true believer will confess and repent of his sins, continually, but he will not sin like an unbeliever does.

 

[lori milne]

I'm sorry but I don't know what your sentence means. Why would having fear of God be wrong, and what verses state contrary? Please cite verses to support your statements. That would help a great deal in clarifying your statements.

The fear of God keeps your in his favor / grace OT -NT
But with out being able to loose your Salvation this is now obsolete.
But God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow means contrary to OSAS
All the versus are in the bible the only place you'll ever see or find over and over if you live in sin you'll go to hell!
I think it's almost impossible to read between every line ?

Or do just dismiss direct implications to death or of what death actually means
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren
[bless and do not curse]James‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]14-16‬ KJV

 

[FreeGrace2]

When Jesus Christ hung on the cross, He paid for all the sins of everyone who will ever be saved, past, present and future. It says in Hebrews that He gave himself up as a sacrifice for sin, once for all time. Jesus is not going to return to earth and die on the cross for your future sins. Therefore, all your sins, past, present and future, were paid for at the cross.

True.

A true believer will not continue living in sin. Such a person is not a Christian, and it's contrary the new nature. A true believer will confess and repent of his sins, continually, but he will not sin like an unbeliever does.

Sadly, not true. All believers still have their sin nature and choose which nature they will follow. That was Paul's message in Rom 6; to whom will you obey as slaves: to sin or to righteousness. It is a choice. When Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away from the Lord. The result; the kingdom was torn from his hand. This is found in 1 Kings 11:1-13.

If a believer cannot continue to live in sin, why all the commands to STOP? How would that be applicable to any unbeliever? It wouldn't. It is only applicable to believers. Saved persons.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The fear of God keeps your in his favor / grace OT -NT

That is incorrect. The Bible tells us what pleases God (keeps us in His favor).

Heb 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

But God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow means contrary to OSAS

How so? Please clarify.

All the versus are in the bible

Yes, all the verses are in the Bible. ??

the only place you'll ever see or find over and over if you live in sin you'll go to hell!

What "only place"? And which verse SAYS living in sin means going to hell. Are you not familiar with John 3:36? "“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

I think it's almost impossible to read between every line ?

I prefer to read the lines, not what's between them. In fact, there is nothing between the lines but empty space.

Or do just dismiss direct implications to death or of what death actually means

The key is to discern what is meant by the various meanings of "death" in Scripture. It isn't all about eternal death, or even physical death.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren
[bless and do not curse]James‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]14-16‬ KJV

OK, how does this verse support your opinions? I don't see any relevancy here.

 

[lori milne]

That is incorrect. The Bible tells us what pleases God (keeps us in His favor). Heb 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. How so? Please clarify. Yes, all the verses are in the Bible. ?? What "only place"? And which verse SAYS living in sin means going to hell. Are you not familiar with John 3:36? "“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." I prefer to read the lines, not what's between them. In fact, there is nothing between the lines but empty space. The key is to discern what is meant by the various meanings of "death" in Scripture. It isn't all about eternal death, or even physical death. OK, how does this verse support your opinions? I don't see any relevancy here.

1. fear of God
Yes but what keeps you true to the faith if their is no consequence to your actions.
Faith is absolutely correct in that manner of speaking but you have to have the faith first to even consider the word to be true then have the fear of God based off of the word.
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear
Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]12‬:[bless and do not curse]28‬ KJV

 

[lori milne]

That is incorrect. The Bible tells us what pleases God (keeps us in His favor). Heb 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. How so? Please clarify. Yes, all the verses are in the Bible. ?? What "only place"? And which verse SAYS living in sin means going to hell. Are you not familiar with John 3:36? "“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." I prefer to read the lines, not what's between them. In fact, there is nothing between the lines but empty space. The key is to discern what is meant by the various meanings of "death" in Scripture. It isn't all about eternal death, or even physical death. OK, how does this verse support your opinions? I don't see any relevancy here.

2. God is the same
From the beginning he separated sin from evil clearly as you will die if you sin / eat the apple,,
That was and is consistently his plea and jesus words of warnings as well
With OSAS theology you can sin and still go to heaven.
Now to clarify sin their is a willing choice to sin and then their is the instinctual sin like when you et angry or stub your toe etc. the instinctual sin goes away in your growth in the faith.

God knows what's true in that if your sinning willfully and don't want to stop but keep saying sorry it's Not repented sin!
The parable of the 10 virgins is an example of procrastinating and taking something VERY important for granted.

Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh
Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]25‬:[bless and do not curse]1-2, 4-13‬ KJV

 

[lori milne]

There is no evidence anywhere in Scripture that he ever believed. In fact, every person is born an unbeliever. So he was always an unbeliever.

That's assumed by you
His actions clearly showed otherwise
Unless he was just crazy and hung him self for no apparent reason.
I'll agree it's assumed on both ends

 

[lori milne]

When Jesus Christ hung on the cross, He paid for all the sins of everyone who will ever be saved, past, present and future. It says in Hebrews that He gave himself up as a sacrifice for sin, once for all time. Jesus is not going to return to earth and die on the cross for your future sins. Therefore, all your sins, past, present and future, were paid for at the cross. A true believer will not continue living in sin. Such a person is not a Christian, and it's contrary the new nature. A true believer will confess and repent of his sins, continually, but he will not sin like an unbeliever does.

It easy to say a true Christian won't sin but trust me brother their are many !! In bondage because they for some odd reason think current sins are covered

This is wrong
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]25‬ KJV
Only repented sins are covered
Other wise your in iniquity intentionally sinning is not covered
Hebrews 10:26
All of James clearly speaks of this as well
Amen

 

[lori milne]

This is not true. If it were, why so many passages addressed to believers to live lives worthy of the Name? It would be automatic for all who have believed if your claim were true. The truth is that even God's children can and will be rebellious. Anything that is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23), and sin is rebellion against God. The reformed doctrine of the Perseverance of the saints is not Biblical. Believers are called TO persevere. It isn't automatic. We are commanded to "be holy" (1 Thess 4:7, 1 Pet 1:15,16, 2 Pet 3:11, etc). To be clear, many call themselves "Christian", but have no idea what the Bible says about what that means. They have NOT professed Christ as Savior. They think by being "good" they are "Christian", or some such nonsense. King David was a believer when he saw Bathsheba bathing. And that didn't turn out well. He received great discipline from the Lord. That said, OSAS is true because Paul wrote that there is nothing in the present or in the future that can separate believers from the love of Christ (Rom 8:38). Unless someone can prove that Paul didn't really mean nothing in the future, such as loss of faith, or entangling oneself into a lifestyle of sin, then there is no reason to believe that even those horrible things can separate us from the love of Christ. Paul was just as clear in 1 Thess 5:4-10 where he contrasted unbelievers as belonging to the night (asleep-v.6) and believers as belonging to the day (alert). Then he concludes in v.10 - who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. The "us" is believers. Being "awake or asleep" from the context refers to lifestyle. So it is clear from v.10 that all believers, whether awake or asleep will live together with Him. This is a great promise and guarantee.

Paul mostly spoke mainly to the unsaved
James is who you need to read because he spoke to the saved which is why they are the poller opposites In their direction to the writings
And yes the alter call says come as you are but no way will it be and stay that way
Amen
Accountability is missing and the fear of God is what will sin do to you if you don't repent.
if their is no accountability every one will stumble I sin and not run the race with endurance!
Or fight the good fight!
The idea of Faith to believe you can thirst no more just kinda looses its flavor like a Christian in sin!
Luke warm

 

[lori milne]

That is incorrect. The Bible tells us what pleases God (keeps us in His favor). Heb 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. How so? Please clarify. Yes, all the verses are in the Bible. ?? What "only place"? And which verse SAYS living in sin means going to hell. Are you not familiar with John 3:36? "“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." I prefer to read the lines, not what's between them. In fact, there is nothing between the lines but empty space. The key is to discern what is meant by the various meanings of "death" in Scripture. It isn't all about eternal death, or even physical death. OK, how does this verse support your opinions? I don't see any relevancy here.

The bible is the only place ware you'll see if you sin you will go to hell yes:
4:Living in sin and going to hell
that verse from John is not balanced with the word of God so that means your reading it out of your flesh of context.
Try the first book Gods first commandment
If you eat of the apple you will die!
Now take that and continue on reading every ware it says if you sin you will "die" what was the meaning and goes to refer to hell as well

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell
Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]5‬:[bless and do not curse]29‬ KJV

 

[lori milne]

That is incorrect. The Bible tells us what pleases God (keeps us in His favor). Heb 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. How so? Please clarify. Yes, all the verses are in the Bible. ?? What "only place"? And which verse SAYS living in sin means going to hell. Are you not familiar with John 3:36? "“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." I prefer to read the lines, not what's between them. In fact, there is nothing between the lines but empty space. The key is to discern what is meant by the various meanings of "death" in Scripture. It isn't all about eternal death, or even physical death. OK, how does this verse support your opinions? I don't see any relevancy here.

Well it's good you know the variations of death so then How do you overlook them
It's clear and straight theology is what's twisted and changed the words to fit ones flesh!
It's called the easy road.
You can't loose wait just eating bacon
Of corse you'll look thinner but the end is worse for you then just staying fat cuz you'll have a heart attach at 25 oops!
Jesus clearly teaches VERY clear a directly to sin in ones life in fact he even says you won't want to sin ! So then why do OSAS still live in sin that's contrary to a promise from Jesus.

And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him
2 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]7‬:[bless and do not curse]15‬ KJV
Accountability produces the fruit
Bad fruit does not come from a good tree
Meaning you can't live in sin AT ALL be perfect as he is perfect