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Marvin Knox said:Whenever I come across a thread where a poster is really far off the mark - I like to look up a few of their other threads and posts to see how they think and talk and what their pet doctrines are. In this case it was quite an interesting trip down cuckoo bird lane.
Actually, not any of these verses were dealt with. If I'm wrong, please at least direct me to the post where these verses (any of them) were dealt with.I did my best to answer all your versus against my better judgement of it being not in good cheer
This is contradictory. "I'm just trying to be closed minded" with "rather open to anything you say".Please no I'm just trying to be closed minded but rather open to anything you say.
Either address these verses, or direct me to the posts where they were.These answers were of all honesty and in good cheer
FreeGrace2 said:I said this: "No you're not. Your view has been refuted. Way back on p. 56, and post #556, I challenged your view that Christ died only for "past sins" with this: "If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins. ephapax Thayer Definition: 1) once, at once 1a) all at once 1b) once for all iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS. Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins". Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25." And all of this was ignored. And there is another verse that refutes your view: Col 2;13,14 - 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. These verses refute your view that Christ died only for the so-called "past sins"." Actually, not any of these verses were dealt with. If I'm wrong, please at least direct me to the post where these verses (any of them) were dealt with. This is contradictory. "I'm just trying to be closed minded" with "rather open to anything you say". Which is it? Either address these verses, or direct me to the posts where they were. Thanks.
No, you didn't. Given that I have commented on how many of your sentences didn't make any sense to me, and I asked for clarification yet never received any, if there were any answers, they were unintelligible.Go back I responded to every one in
Separate posts
FreeGrace2 said:No, you didn't. Given that I have commented on how many of your sentences didn't make any sense to me, and I asked for clarification yet never received any, if there were any answers, they were unintelligible. In general, when I quoted verses along with questions, what I got back was different verses that didn't relate to the ones I quoted, and more questions. Citing other verses and asking more questions isn't an answer. Now, I proved from Scripture in post #556 that Christ died for all sins. You've not provided any refutation of that. I also proved from Scripture that our salvation is secure and guaranteed, and NOT from any conditions. And none of those verses were addressed. John 10:28,29 says that "no one" can snatch believers from God's hand. That phrase "no one" means "not any person", and thus includes even the believer him/her self. Rom 8:38 says that neither "things present nor things future" can separate us (believers) from the love of Christ. The phrase in quotes refers to anything that might occur in the present or future. And there were no exclusions about the present or future. Therefore, even disobedient believers will NOT be separated from the love of Christ. They will certainly be disciplined during their life on earth, and lose out on significant reward and blessing in eternity. So there is no need to keep claiming that the OSAS position is that one can sin without consequence. That kind of claim is a blatant LIE. And finally, the Bible makes crystal clear that the Holy Spirit is given to every believer as a promise or pledge or guarantee for…the day of redemption!! Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5. The "day of redemption" which is future, is guaranteed on the basis of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
I am not seeing what is NOT there!! And this type of response only proves that there were no answers.Then your not seeing the responses
Just more opinions. If they didn't prove that He died once for all sins, then why haven't you provided any clear explanation of how they didn't? Just making a claim without any evidence at all has no value.None of the responses had questions just statements about how none of them proving he died once for all sins was for unrepented or repented sins
seekingsolace said:Lori, i'm worried that you are taking verses out of context, ignoring the entire truth shown in the chapters. The verse in question is about true and false disciples, preceding this was a description of identifying false prophets by their fruits, after is a description of a foundation of the believer and the rewards. Throughout Jesus ministry he described these hypocrites who professed to believe, but were shown to be false by their actions. Salvation is always by faith not works, to trust in the work of Jesus on the cross. Works are the fruit of the Spirit, not the means of salvation. Repentance is returning to fellowship with the Lord. Romans. 4:5-8 "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.” Acts 10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” Acts 26:18 – Jesus to Saul at being sent to preach the Gospel to Gentiles "to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me."
seekingsolace said:Lori, i'm worried that you are taking verses out of context, ignoring the entire truth shown in the chapters. The verse in question is about true and false disciples, preceding this was a description of identifying false prophets by their fruits, after is a description of a foundation of the believer and the rewards. Throughout Jesus ministry he described these hypocrites who professed to believe, but were shown to be false by their actions. Salvation is always by faith not works, to trust in the work of Jesus on the cross. Works are the fruit of the Spirit, not the means of salvation. Repentance is returning to fellowship with the Lord. Romans. 4:5-8 "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.” Acts 10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” Acts 26:18 – Jesus to Saul at being sent to preach the Gospel to Gentiles "to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me."
lori milne said:This says don't continue in sin clearly As does Romans 3:25 clearly says past sins. God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God Romans 6:9-13,15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
lori milne said:Hebrews 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself Says nothing about current sins being covered or future. It just says his sins No implication of repented or sins currently being committed
.FreeGrace2 said:I am not seeing what is NOT there!! And this type of response only proves that there were no answers. Just more opinions. If they didn't prove that He died once for all sins, then why haven't you provided any clear explanation of how they didn't? Just making a claim without any evidence at all has no value.
And I know my sins are covered as well that he died and rose for all sins
I just don't think we should take it in vain
Free from sin isn't free to sin according to the bible.
Romans 3:25 these are all past sins
It doesn't say un repented sins
And it doesn't say current or future.
It's past
Leviticus speaks of this as well
Confession of sin past that were committed but now are confessed.
Hebrew 10:26 covers that again
Willfully sinning isn't covered
seekingsolace said:Nothing we can do in this life on our own accord will ever make you right with the Lord. We cannot give anything to God that he has not given us, thats the beauty of His Grace. Jesus is acting as High Priest in intercession for us, simply put it is ongoing, not past sin but all sin. You accept Christs gift, you are saved, you refuse Christ, you reject the gift. That being said, I agree people should not continue sinning if they truly believe in God and want to obey Him. But if a person sins, and we all sin regardless of what people believe - God justifies, not us, they do not lose salvation. I would argue that you really aren't a true believer if you do not repent of sins, so that should be a mute point. When you believe you are sealed with the Holy Spirit, as a promise from God until the day of redemption. In the Epistles it was quite clear many had fallen back into their sinful lives, Paul did not claim they had lost salvation, if you fall off the track after being saved, you get back on from where you left, not from the beginning. I hope that clears it up somewhat.
seekingsolace said:I can't stress the important of using rules of interpretation when reading the Bible, God does not create disorder, but order. I Timothy 5:8 illustrates that a person that does not care for their own, is worse than an unbeliever. Since the gospel is that of love, they are acting contrary to it. This does not say that person has become unsaved. It's important that you understand the dispensations and the change in periods. You cannot directly quote a verse and ignore all other related passages. God does not revoke a promise, thus a true believer is eternally secure. If a person walks away from the faith, they were never a true believer. Hebrews 6 is a warning of not progressing, keeping the false doctrine of salvation by works and not faith, thus re crucifying Jesus and nullifying the fullness of His Grace.
But your view is that a believer can lose their salvation in spite of the many verses that tell us that believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee or promise or pledge for the day of redemption. Eph 1;13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5.I agree with every one of the verses in the bible
Glad to read that you now accept that He died for all sins. But He didn't rise for any sins.And I know my sins are covered as well that he died and rose for all sins
I gave you a number of verses that clearly indicate that He died once for all sins. That's past, present and future sins.Romans 3:25 these are all past sins
It doesn't say un repented sins
And it doesn't say current or future.
I responded to your view of "past sins" in post #556 with verses that spoke of Christ dying for sins once for all. All sins have been paid for.This says don't continue in sin clearly As does Romans 3:25 clearly says past sins. God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God Romans 6:9-13,15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
This was to free grace
OK, I did, and I'll do it again.Originally Posted by lori milne
Romans 3:25
Clearly says past sins
Show me differently
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