Refuting Arianism

[BobRyan]

i never deleted anything
ad intra.

create does not mean create
no time no sequence
etc.

looks like a lot of "deleting"

 

[BobRyan]

God is an infinite mind that thinks itself into existence and in so doing becomes self-aware.

Then there was a time when God did not exist in your view so He had to "think Himself into existing" ??

The Father loves the Son by giving Him being / existence,

no text say "The Father gives God the Son being/existence" - I guess we both know that.

God is Creator, Sanctifier, and Redeemer.

Which is the role of God the Son according to John 1

The Father’s power is to create ex nihilo; .

That is the role of God the Son.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind....9 This was the true Light that, coming into the world, enlightens every person. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not know Him.

Col 1
16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

All things created BY Him, and THROUGH Him and FOR Him. You are slicing things up - that cannot be sliced

 

[dóxatotheó]

How do you harmonize this post with God having only one essence, intellect, and will.

The Trinity is God we define God not by persons but by what he is so he can have 3 hypostases(individual reality) in one ousia(being)'. Everything can be explained by the ontological dependence of the Son and Holy Spirit is to the Father and the Father being perfect in all regards so he needs his wisdom(Son) and power(Holy Spirit) with him aswell to stay perfect and nonparadoxal.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Then there was a time when God did not exist in your view so He had to "think Himself into existing" ??



no text say "The Father gives God the Son being/existence" - I guess we both know that.



Which is the role of God the Son according to John 1



That is the role of God the Son.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind....9 This was the true Light that, coming into the world, enlightens every person. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not know Him.

Col 1
16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

All things created BY Him, and THROUGH Him and FOR Him. You are slicing things up - that cannot be sliced

and you do know begotten means eternal begotten thats what i mean by he came to be generated not created literally and ok the SON is God never said he wasnt you just dont understand the trinity metaphysically and philosophy which is ok not many people study it that way im not saying the Son came in existence eternally so the verses your saying doesnt hold weight on me secondly dont you hold that the Son is a hypostasis in the trinity or you believe tritheism secondly what im saying is in regards to the nicene fathers philosophical explanation of the trinity and you got so confused because you dk philosophy and every verse i agree with because i dont believe he was begotten eternally because the Son was begotted from the Father in his essence he was eternally begotted if you dont hold to this view you believe apostasy. Also, what i mean think himself its in regards to Jesus being his perfected image and God being self aware so he thinks his self-image outside eternity

 

[dóxatotheó]

create does not mean create
no time no sequence
etc.

looks like a lot of "deleting"

literally dk what you mean i read everything i typed dont see any deletion

 

[BobRyan]

and you do know begotten means eternal begotten thats what i mean by he came to be generated not created literally and ok the SON is God never said he wasnt

This issue is with statements not found in scripture like
"God the Son was generated"
"God the Son was created"

Which are all time-based statements referring to something taking place in the past.

 

[BobRyan]

1. no text says "The Father gives God the Son being/existence" - I guess we both know that.

2. God the Son is Creator, Sanctifier, and Redeemer.
That is the role of God the Son according to John 1

3. God the Son has the power to create ex nihilo as we see here

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind....9 This was the true Light that, coming into the world, enlightens every person. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not know Him.

Col 1
16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

All things created BY Him, and THROUGH Him and FOR Him.

im not saying the Son came in existence eternally so the verses your saying doesnt hold weight on me

You have free will - you can view it however you wish.

 

[dóxatotheó]

This issue is with statements not found in scripture like
"God the Son was generated"
"God the Son was created"

Which are all time-based statements referring to something taking place in the past.

come into existence Ad intra meaning Jesus is a fundamental reality in the essence of God friend i promise im not saying he was created like a creation of God and when I say Generated i mean he thought his image in the essence of God we believe one God not 3 if we hold to the trinity we believe 3 hypostasis(persons) one being(essence) not modalism friend God bless

 

[dóxatotheó]

You have free will - you can view it however you wish.

and of course there isnt a verse that says he created the SON i dont believe that we both believe he was begotten correct?

 

[disciple Clint]

The Trinity is God we define God not by persons but by what he is so he can have 3 hypostases(individual reality) in one ousia(being)'. Everything can be explained by the ontological dependence of the Son and Holy Spirit is to the Father and the Father being perfect in all regards so he needs his wisdom(Son) and power(Holy Spirit) with him aswell to stay perfect and nonparadoxal.

Here is the problem that I see: you seem to be dividing up the mind of God into specific functions related to the persons of the Trinity when there is one intellect and one will. The impression is that each person has a separate intellect and will. I do not think you are intending this impression but some clarification is desirable.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Here is the problem that I see: you seem to be dividing up the mind of God into specific functions related to the persons of the Trinity when there is one intellect and one will. The impression is that each person has a separate intellect and will. I do not think you are intending this impression but some clarification is desirable.

they dont have different intelligible minds so that isnt wat i said i made that across the very first post and they all follow the same will because they are all ontologically dependent on each other if we dont distinct the logos from the Father than there isnt a real trinity but rather tritheism they are all in the same essence and they all have the same mind and same will they arent distinct ontologically they are distinct by core functions which i got across by saying Jesus was begotted before eternity which means eternally begotted meaning always existed before eternity