Reformed

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

What does "Reformed" exactly mean?

 

[Vessel Of Mercy]

"To improve by alteration, correction of error, or removal of defects; put into a better form or condition." says www.dictionary.com. I suppose "reformed" is the past tense of that.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

How do I know if I am "Reformed"?

 

[Vessel Of Mercy]

How do I know if I am "Reformed"?

I have never really understood the idea of "reformed" anything in relation to Christianity without the context of the Reformation. I am more quick to call myself a Calvinist because I think I can more easily define what that means. The word "reformed" in the context of the Reformation has a lot of stuff that I just can't live up to in my own mindset. I'm not sure if that was clear or not.

To answer your question, I don't know how you can know if you are "Reformed" or not. I suppose many would equate that today with being a Calvinist.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I am neither Calvanist or Armenian, but believe in certain reformed ideas. Does this constitute "Reformed"?

 

[Vessel Of Mercy]

There are different opinions as to what degree of affirmation of the Reformed faith one must have in order to be called Reformed. I would tend to say that only those that hold to purely Reformed doctrine are Reformed or Calvinist. What Reformed ideas do you hold to? Maybe you could describe your beliefs and that would help. What would also help if some other Calvinists could help you out that are more educated than I am. I will try to understand what you mean anyway right now.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Reformed from the reformation? Or reformed in general? If you have a list of reformed ideas I could probably do it a lot faster

 

[oworm]

In a nutshell............................Or rather on a flowers stem!
Reformation theology and belief is succintly the following
Calvinism or reformed Christianity or biblical Christianity adheres to a very high view of scripture and seeks to derive its theological formulations based solely on God’s word. It focuses on God’s sovereignty, stating that God is able and willing by virtue of his omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence, to do whatever He desires with His creation. It also maintains that within the Bible are the following teachings: That God, by His sovereign grace predestines people into salvation; that Jesus died only for those predestined; that God regenerates the individual where he is then able and wants to choose God; and that it is impossible for those who are redeemed to lose their salvation.
Arminianism, on the other hand, maintains that God predestined, but not in an absolute sense. Rather, He looked into the future to see who would pick him and then He chose them. Jesus died for all peoples' sins who have ever lived and ever will live, not just the Christians. Each person is the one who decides if he wants to be saved or not. And finally, it is possible to lose your salvation (some arminians believe you cannot lose your salvation).




Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)


Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)



​

These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.



Total Depravity:
Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.
The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."
Calvinism also maintains that because of our s fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).

Limited Atonement:
Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).

Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.

Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

The beuty of these doctrines (We normally refer to them as the doctrines of grace) is that the believer does not fear judgement for his sin because his sin was dealt with at the cross and by implication of Christs finished work he is free from the penalty of the Law.He is therefore justified before a Holy and righteous God whose moral nature demands justice for sin. If the believer is justified he is reconciled and made acceptable to God. On that basis he is adopted into the family of God with all the privelages and benefits of sonship. God becomes his father and by the very nature of the fatherly love of God the believer is secure in the knowledge that he will be brought to glory,not by his own efforts but solely by the grace and mercy of God.

For many these doctrines are tough meat to chew on and swallow because on the face of it it seems arrogant to assume that we can approach the very throne of God and presume that we have a "direct line to heaven" as it were. Some attack the doctrines as a licence to sin but that is a weak argument because the truly born again child of God, although he may struggle with his sin will always have an overpowering desire to be Holy and will indeed hate his sin nature and battle with it almost constantly.

For me the most glorious of all truths is that i can call God "Abba" or "Daddy" which is what the original word translates to. The implication of which is that God stoops down and gathers his children,puts them on his knee and presses their heads to his breast (excuse the anthropomorphisms) This teaches me that God wants intimacy and filial love from His children. I think that was one of the driving forces behind which the reformers sought to bring to light in their day.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

How many of the TULIP does one have to believe to be Reformed?

 

[cajunhillbilly]

How many of the TULIP does one have to believe to be Reformed?

How comes this question again.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

How many of the TULIP does one have to believe to be Reformed?

TULIP is soteriology, they are the topic of Institutes Book III.
To be Reformed means to believe all of them, and the rest of Book III.

The Reformed churches begin to divide on topic in Book IV of Institutes, in particular, either the mode or whom is baptized. The second big division is over church government, either presbyterian or congregational. There are Reformed churches that practice on all sides of both issues. The last major division is over eschatology, something Calvin spoke and wrote very little about, most Reformed are covenantal but it is possible (barely) to be premill, there exist dispensational reformed but many other Reformed put them outside the camp.

Issues:
to be Reformed traditionally meant adherence to soteriology as taught by Calvin in Book III.(here is Dordt)
divisions are legitimate over baptism: mode and paedo or not.
and in form of church government.
large divisions exist over eschatology as well.

 

[j-boot]

How many of the TULIP does one have to believe to be Reformed?

Good question. Many people claim that all 5 points are required, but Amyraldians ("4-point Calvinists" who reject Limited Atonement) are often considered to be Reformed. Other than them, individuals who claim 4 or fewer points generally reject or redefine the core principle of Reformed thought; the absolute sovereignty of God in all things including salvation. The specious construct dubbed "one-point Calvinism" used by some evangelists to retain the Perseverance of the Saints cannot be caled Reformed by any means.

 

[Imblessed]

In a nutshell............................Or rather on a flowers stem!
Reformation theology and belief is succintly the following
Calvinism or reformed Christianity or biblical Christianity adheres to a very high view of scripture and seeks to derive its theological formulations based solely on God’s word. It focuses on God’s sovereignty, stating that God is able and willing by virtue of his omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence, to do whatever He desires with His creation. It also maintains that within the Bible are the following teachings: That God, by His sovereign grace predestines people into salvation; that Jesus died only for those predestined; that God regenerates the individual where he is then able and wants to choose God; and that it is impossible for those who are redeemed to lose their salvation.
Arminianism, on the other hand, maintains that God predestined, but not in an absolute sense. Rather, He looked into the future to see who would pick him and then He chose them. Jesus died for all peoples' sins who have ever lived and ever will live, not just the Christians. Each person is the one who decides if he wants to be saved or not. And finally, it is possible to lose your salvation (some arminians believe you cannot lose your salvation).






Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)



Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)




​

These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.




Total Depravity:
Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.
The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."
Calvinism also maintains that because of our s fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).

Limited Atonement:
Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).

Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.

Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

The beuty of these doctrines (We normally refer to them as the doctrines of grace) is that the believer does not fear judgement for his sin because his sin was dealt with at the cross and by implication of Christs finished work he is free from the penalty of the Law.He is therefore justified before a Holy and righteous God whose moral nature demands justice for sin. If the believer is justified he is reconciled and made acceptable to God. On that basis he is adopted into the family of God with all the privelages and benefits of sonship. God becomes his father and by the very nature of the fatherly love of God the believer is secure in the knowledge that he will be brought to glory,not by his own efforts but solely by the grace and mercy of God.

For many these doctrines are tough meat to chew on and swallow because on the face of it it seems arrogant to assume that we can approach the very throne of God and presume that we have a "direct line to heaven" as it were. Some attack the doctrines as a licence to sin but that is a weak argument because the truly born again child of God, although he may struggle with his sin will always have an overpowering desire to be Holy and will indeed hate his sin nature and battle with it almost constantly.

For me the most glorious of all truths is that i can call God "Abba" or "Daddy" which is what the original word translates to. The implication of which is that God stoops down and gathers his children,puts them on his knee and presses their heads to his breast (excuse the anthropomorphisms) This teaches me that God wants intimacy and filial love from His children. I think that was one of the driving forces behind which the reformers sought to bring to light in their day.

Very well put! You just convinced me of Calvinism all over again!!!!

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Good question. Many people claim that all 5 points are required, but Amyraldians ("4-point Calvinists" who reject Limited Atonement) are often considered to be Reformed. Other than them, individuals who claim 4 or fewer points generally reject or redefine the core principle of Reformed thought; the absolute sovereignty of God in all things including salvation. The specious construct dubbed "one-point Calvinism" used by some evangelists to retain the Perseverance of the Saints cannot be caled Reformed by any means.

I also reject limited atonement, but accept the other points as I understand them.

 

[kyzar]

My fiance grew up (and still attends) a reformed church, she would call herself (as would everybody there) a 'reformed' chrstian... However she doesn't strictly hold to ALL calvinist views just as myself (a, for all accounts and purposes, 'baptist') doesn't hold too ALL armenian views, in fact quite a number I disagree with... However she is still a 'reformed' and i am still a 'baptist'... personally they're just titles that group people with 'similar' beliefs together, not a strict set one way thing...

 

[j-boot]

I also reject limited atonement, but accept the other points as I understand them.

Then you might be an Amyraldian, depending upon how orthodox your understanding of the remaining four points are. To make it (overly) simple, there are different "flavors" of Calvinism. These depend on the order that one assigns to the decrees of God. In classical Calvinism, also known as Supralapsarian (before the fall) Calvinism, the decrees are ordered thus:

1. God decrees to elect some for salvation
2. God decrees the fall of man
3. God decrees to provide atonement for the elect

This order supports strong 5-point Calvinism. A second form of 5-point Calvinism is Infralapsarian (after the fall). In form this the order of decrees is:

1. God decrees the fall of man
2. God decrees to elect some for salvation
3. God decrees to provide atonement for the elect

This avoids the accusation that "God sentences before the trial", but still limits the atonement. In Amyraldianism, the order of decrees is thus:

1. God decrees the fall of man
2. God decrees to provide universal atonement
3. God decrees to elect some for salvation

This is basically the same order of decrees held by Arminians. The difference is that the Amyraldian believes that God in His soveriegn grace applies the atonement to those He elects, and that He elects for his good pleasure and not out of "foreknowledge" of the future choices of His creatures. This schema has the advantage of being easier to reconcile with certain scriptures, but the disadvantages of conflicting with other (less beloved )scriptures and of making the atonement theoretical. Nevertheless, many consider the Amyraldians to be Reformed (including me, although I'm a 5-pointer).

The Arminian adds a fourth decree-a decree not of God, but of man:

1. God decrees the fall of man
2. God decrees to provide universal atonement
3. Man decides to apply the atonement to himself
4. God decrees to elect those men who apply the atonement to themselves

In this system it is the will of man that saves, since God Himself cannot accomplish salvation without man's consent.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

My fiance grew up (and still attends) a reformed church, she would call herself (as would everybody there) a 'reformed' chrstian... However she doesn't strictly hold to ALL calvinist views just as myself (a, for all accounts and purposes, 'baptist') doesn't hold too ALL armenian views, in fact quite a number I disagree with... However she is still a 'reformed' and i am still a 'baptist'... personally they're just titles that group people with 'similar' beliefs together, not a strict set one way thing...

That makes sense. I don't think I'm simply "one or the other" either.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

In Amyraldianism, the order of decrees is thus:

1. God decrees the fall of man
2. God decrees to provide universal atonement
3. God decrees to elect some for salvation

This is basically the same order of decrees held by Arminians. The difference is that the Amyraldian believes that God in His soveriegn grace applies the atonement to those He elects, and that He elects for his good pleasure and not out of "foreknowledge" of the future choices of His creatures. This schema has the advantage of being easier to reconcile with certain scriptures, but the disadvantages of conflicting with other (less beloved )scriptures and of making the atonement theoretical. Nevertheless, many consider the Amyraldians to be Reformed (including me, although I'm a 5-pointer).

The Arminian adds a fourth decree-a decree not of God, but of man:

1. God decrees the fall of man
2. God decrees to provide universal atonement
3. Man decides to apply the atonement to himself
4. God decrees to elect those men who apply the atonement to themselves

In this system it is the will of man that saves, since God Himself cannot accomplish salvation without man's consent.

I think I fall somewhere between these two. Definately not the last one, but the other one seems to be missing something, can't say what...

 

[Follower of Christ]

Well, I suppose this thread has sealed that Im not a Calvinist, nor ever could be.

I cannot find it in myself to outright dismiss clear scripture warning against tasting of the heavenly gift then falling away.

Guess this leaves me somewhere in between the two..

 

[oworm]

I cannot find it in myself to outright dismiss clear scripture warning against tasting of the heavenly gift then falling away..

Tasting isnt eating !