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Reformed Anglicanism

JM

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What happened to Reformed or Evangelical Anglicanism? Last Lord’s Day I attended the Lord’s Supper at the Anglican church. I forgot how beautiful the stained glass and service was. I did partake of it. I was sitting there about 30 minutes before the service and read through the 39 Articles of Religion which offered a Protestant understanding of the service so I took part. The Puritan Board had some info about them but it seems most use the term “Reformed” but do not do so in reference to the Reformed faith but rather, a reform of the Anglican church away from Anglo-Catholicism.

Weird.

Rylie's comments here: Church Society - Issues - Ryle on the 39 Articles

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 

JM

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From what I know Anglicanism is Crypto-Catholic.

Yes, somewhat. From about 1800 on you see Anglicanism turn to “tradition” to defend itself from higher criticism and Enlightenment philosophy. The Anglicans were also guilty of re-publishing works that denied Roman Catholicism of being an antichristian system, printing Futurist works that soon turned into Dispensationalism and others that became the foundation for modern Preterism. The 39 Articles are really a good starting point for Reformed doctrine, not as High on the Calvinism scale as I’d like, but still a pretty good place to begin. It’s too bad they were abandoned.

Reformed Anglican Fellowship
The Reformed Episcopal Church

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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sdowney717

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What about the homosexual agenda and the Anglican church?
What about abandoning-departing from the word of God and embracing secular and cultural morality, watering down, making of no effect the scriptural warnings, nullifying the word of God? No longer being the chosen people of God, the called out ones from the world, the world and the church will become as one.

Do you think that this is just the end time falling away, part of the apostasy, I do, I expect it will get worse. Why is that? Well in the end times people will depart from the truth to follow demon teachings. The reason they do this is they do not possess the Holy Spirit, they are not His own special people called out of the darkness that is this world. I even expect that if and when the Antichrist shows up according to 2 Thess 2, many good church people will embrace and worship him as the returned Christ. (Matt 24). The coming apostasy will get really bad when that time's here, bad enough that they will fall under a strong deception from God to believe the lie whole heartedly, those who refuse to LOVE the truth.

The apostasy must occur or Christ wont return and since we know Christ returns then so must occur the apostasy.
 
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JM

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What about the homosexual agenda and the Anglican church?


NOTE: I’m a Baptist. A Particular and sometimes called a Peculiar Baptist.

Without defending the indefensible…the Anglican church is breaking apart over the liberalism streaming out of Canterbury. African and Asian Bishops are now stepping in and overseeing parishes in North America, ordaining clergy, etc. in an effort to stem the liberal tide. The ritualism involved in the service, lack of education and training in the scriptures, have all contributed to mess they find themselves in now. We should take each parish individually, like an SBC Baptist church, before condemning them all. It is troubling if they remain in communion with heretical or heterodox parishes though…but we shouldn’t be so quick to claim local Evangelical or Reformed Anglicans (even if I disagree with most of their worship) are heretics if they are preaching the Gospel of God’s free grace toward sinners. Even if that is far and few between.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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ztalbott

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All very interesting... I didn't realize there was such a thing as Reformed Anglicanism today — though there were certainly Reformed men in the Anglican Church at different parts of history (some of whom lost their heads for it).
 
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Calvinist Dark Lord

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All very interesting... I didn't realize there was such a thing as Reformed Anglicanism today — though there were certainly Reformed men in the Anglican Church at different parts of history (some of whom lost their heads for it).
What JM refers to as Reformed Anglicanism is here in the US expressed as the Reformed Episcopal Church. i know of them because their seminary is near to where i live. When i was a member of my former congregation in the EPC, we often had a professor at that seminary fill in when the pastor took vacation or study leave.
 
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Calvinist Dark Lord

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Dark Lord, did they preach the Gospel? Were they Reformed?
i know that the Professor who filled in for our pastor certainly did. As for their views, you can examine that for yourself. This is their statement with respect to biblical theology.

Unfortunately the Professor in question passed away a few years ago.

i was in error with my earlier post. Trinity School is NOT associated with the Reformed Episcopal Church, although i believe that St. Stephens is. This area of Western Pennsylvania is a bastion of theologically conservative Episcopal/Anglican thought in the US.

As for the Reformed Episcopal Church, Dr. Michael Horton was once a Deacon in that denomination.
 
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Albion

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What happened to Reformed or Evangelical Anglicanism? Last Lord’s Day I attended the Lord’s Supper at the Anglican church. I forgot how beautiful the stained glass and service was. I did partake of it. I was sitting there about 30 minutes before the service and read through the 39 Articles of Religion which offered a Protestant understanding of the service so I took part. The Puritan Board had some info about them but it seems most use the term “Reformed” but do not do so in reference to the Reformed faith but rather, a reform of the Anglican church away from Anglo-Catholicism.

Weird.

Rylie's comments here: Church Society - Issues - Ryle on the 39 Articles

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Yes, there are reformed, orthodox, Evangelical Anglicans. However, the Anglo-Roman faction tends to be more in evidence because it is more aggressive in promoting itself (which I think is evidenced by some of the comments made on this thread), and it's also fair to say that it has been in the ascendency, more or less, for the past century or so. But if anyone wants to find or associate with reformed Anglicans, there are churches, jurisdictions, and etc. that can be located.
 
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Albion

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What JM refers to as Reformed Anglicanism is here in the US expressed as the Reformed Episcopal Church. i know of them because their seminary is near to where i live. When i was a member of my former congregation in the EPC, we often had a professor at that seminary fill in when the pastor took vacation or study leave.

But, to be clear, the REC has now joined the Anglican Church in North America and is expected to give up its traditional belief system. It's already compromised major parts of it and given up most of its worship style to the "mainline" of American Anglicanism represented by The Episcopal Church.
 
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Albion

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Albion, why stay in the Anglican communion? From the once inside, now outside looking in...it seems like a sinking ship.

I don't see any reason to stay in the Anglican Communion, no. But my church is not, and the REC is not, and the ACNA is not.

Those orthodox Anglicans who think there's something to save, look to the African churches of the Anglican Communion, of course, But these are not entirely on the right side of all issues nor are they necessarily capable of wielding the necessary leverage to straighten out the Anglican Communion.
 
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JM

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Interesting text. Some of the links are questionable.

How so?

Reasons to reject the Book of Common Prayer by John Gill.

The book of [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Common Prayer, [/FONT]set forth as a rule and directory of divine worship and service, we have many things to object to.

1. Inasmuch as it prescribes certain stinted set forms of prayer, and ties men up to the use of them: we do not find that the apostles of Christ and the first churches used any such forms, nor Christians for many ages; and of whatever use it can be thought to be unto persons of weak capacities, surely such that have spiritual gifts, or the gift of preaching the gospel, can stand in no need of it, and who must have the gift of prayer; and to be bound to such pre-composed forms, as it agrees not with the promise of the Spirit of grace and supplication, so not with the different cases, circumstances, and frames that Christians are sometimes in; wherefore not to take notice of the defectiveness of these prayers, and of the incoherence and obscurity of some of the petitions in them; the frequent tautologies and repetitions, especially in the Litany, so contrary to Christ’s precept in Matthew 6:7 are sufficient to give us a distaste of them.

2. Though we are not against reading the scriptures in private and in public, yet we cannot approve of the manner the Liturgy directs unto; namely, the reading it by piece-meals, by bits and scraps, so mangled and curtailed as the Gospels and Epistles are: we see not why any part of scripture should be omitted; and the order of these being an invention of a Pope of Rome[FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic], [/FONT]and the fixing them to matins and even-songs smelling so rank of popery, no ways serve to recommend them to us: not to take notice of the great impropriety of calling passages out of [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Isaiah, Jeremiah, Joel, Malachi, [/FONT]and the Acts of the apostles, by the name of Epistles: but especially it gives us much uneasiness to see lessons taken out of the [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Apocrypha, [/FONT]and appointed to be read as if of equal authority with the sacred scriptures; nay not only out of the books of [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Baruch, Wisdom, [/FONT]and [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Ecclesiasticus, [/FONT]but out of the histories of [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Tobit, Judith, Susanna, Bel and the dragon, [/FONT]and such lessons out of them as contain the most idle and fabulous stories.

3. The book of Common Prayer, enjoins the reading of the book of [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Psalms [/FONT]in the corrupt translation of the [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Vulgate Latin, use[/FONT]d by the papists; in which there are great omissions and subtractions in some places; as every where, the titles of the [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Psalms [/FONT]are left out, and in all places there words Higgaion and [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Selah, [/FONT]and the last verse of Psalm 72 and in others, there are manifest additions, as in Psalm 2:12; 4:8; 13:6; 22:1, 31; 39:12; 132:4; 136:27; 147:8 and three whole verses in Psalm 14, whereas nothing should be taken from, nor added to the word of God; some sentences are absurd and void of sense, as Psalm 58:8; 68:30, 31; and in others the sense is perverted, or a contrary one given, as in Psalm 17:4; 18:26; 30:13; 105:28; 106:30; 107:40; and 125:3. This translation of the Psalms stands in the [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]English [/FONT]Liturgy, and is used and read in the churches in [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]England.[/FONT]
[FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic][/FONT]
4. It directs to the observation of several fasts and festivals, which are no where enjoined in the word of God, and for which it provides collects, gospels and epistles to be read: the fasts are, Quadragesima or [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Lent, [/FONT]in imitation of Christ’s forty days fast in the wilderness, [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Ember [/FONT]weeks, Rogatian days, and all the [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Fridays [/FONT]in the year; in which men are commanded to abstain from meats, which God has created to be received with thanksgiving. The festivals, besides, the principal ones, Christmas, Easter and [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Whitsuntide, [/FONT]are the several saints days throughout the year; which are all of popish invention, and are either moveable or fixed, as the popish festivals be; and being the relics of popery makes us still more uneasy and dissatisfied with them.

5. Besides the corruptions before observed in the ordinances of Baptism and the Lord’s supper, in the order for the Visitation of the Sick stands a form of Absolution, which runs thus; “And by his (Christ’s) authority committed to me, I absolve thee from all thy sins, in the name of the Father,and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost;” which is a mere popish device; Christ having left no such power to his church, nor committed any such authority to any set of men in it; all that the Ministers of Christ have power or authority to do, is only ministerially to declare and pronounce, that such who believe in Christ shall receive the remission of sins, and that their sins are forgiven them; and that such who believe not shall be damned.

6. It appoints some things merely civil, as ecclesiastical and appertaining to the ministry, and to be performed by ecclesiastical persons and ministers, and provides offices for them: as,

1. Matrimony; which seems to favor the popish notion of making a sacrament of it; whereas it is a mere civil contract between a man and a woman, and in which a minister has nothing to do; nor do we ever read of any priest or Levite, that was ever concerned in the solemnization of it between other persons, under the Old Testament, or of any apostle or minister of the word, under the New; not to say any thing of the form of it, or of the ceremonies attending it.

2. The Burial of the Dead; which is a mere civil action, and belongs not to a gospel-minister, but to the relations of the deceased or other neighbors, friends or acquaintance (Matthew 8:21, 22; Acts 8:2): nor is there any necessity for a place to be consecrated for such a purpose. [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Abraham [/FONT]and Sarah were buried in a cave, [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Deborah [/FONT]under an oak, [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Joshua [/FONT]in a field, [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]Samuel [/FONT]in his house, and Christ in a garden (Gen. 23:9; 35:8; John 24:30; 1 Sam. 25:1; John 19:41). Nor do the scriptures ever make mention of any service being read, or of any divine worship being performed at the interment of the dead; and was any thing of this kind necessary, yet we must be obliged to object unto, nor could we comply with, the service used by the church of [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]England [/FONT]on this occasion; we cannot in conscience call every man and woman, our [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]dear brother, [/FONT]or our [FONT=TimesNewRoman, Italic]dear sister[/FONT], as some who have lived vicious lives, and hive not appeared to have had true repentance towards God or faith in Christ, have been called; or “commit their bodies to the ground in sure and certain hope of the resurrection to eternal life;” since we know there will be a resurrection to damnation as well as to eternal life; nor can we give thanks to God on account of many, “that it has pleased him to deliver them out of the miseries of this sinful world;” nor join in the following petition, which seems to favor the popish notion of praying for the dead; “beseeching — that we, with all those that are departed in the true faith of thy holy name, may have our perfect consummation and bliss, both in body and soul,” etc.


Gill’s arguments are compelling.

I do love using the BCP…but is it theologically sound?

Should I take Gill’s advice, as a direct rebuke considering I’ve recently been attending the Lord’s Supper at the Anglican church?

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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Albion

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I am hesitant to go into it all in unnecessary detail, but some of that gives the impression that there's more there than there actually is. So it would be best to make no firm judgments when working through that list. And I do like some of the entries.

Reasons to reject the Book of Common Prayer by John Gill.

Now, on this matter, I think one thing has to be said immediately. When we talk about "Reformed Anglican" something or other, we are not speaking of a Reformed or Presbyterian church that's technically a part of some Anglican federation with an Anglican name. At most, Anglicans, even the most Evangelical types, are Anglicans with a TULIP type view about salvation and a distaste for excessive ceremony. But much of Medieval and Ancient Christianity did not need to be reformed, in our opinion. What separates the more Catholic Anglicans from the more Protestant Anglicans is the commitment to the basic principles of the Reformation...or not. But there are virtually no Anglicans that would be, strictly speaking, up and down the line, Calvinists. And a lot of what John Gill wrote about the BCP is plainly mistaken, if truth be told.

The historic Book of Common Prayer (not The Episcopal Church's current version) hasn't been called the "second most beautiful book in the English language" for nothing, but no, it's not a Dutch Reformed service book or anything like that. So in discussions like this, there is a place for collegiality when it comes to many points that separate us all from the unreformed churches, but it won't be so on every doctrine or practice.
 
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