References to Hell in OT

[aero_sc]

In the NT John 3:15 and 16 both state, "should not perish". To me that has always been difficult to view as everlasting torment as opposed to what the word perish actually means. Anyone with the Greek etc. language skills that I don't possess that might could expound on the root word and it's meanings. Is it in any way a possible translation issue? I know of several other examples very similar to this but hopefully this will suffice for now.

 

[Christos Anesti]

You provided more English translations of the word "aionion" as everlasting. I don't see how that proves that the word does in fact imply "everlasting". It merely proves that the translators of those particular Bible version/s decided to translate it in that manner. Certainly showing that some Bible translators do translate it as "eternal" or "everlasting" could help support your argument but it isn't conclusive proof. I was doubting the accuracy of such a translation.

 

[genifer]

From what Ive read or come up with thus far I am thinking about the Lake of Fire...

Revelation 20

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.The Dead Are Judged

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Are the lake of burning sulfur and the lake of fire the same thing? Im guessing they are. Here it says that They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
It sounds like those who died without accepting Christ are dead but their soul is waiting to be raised for judgement. Something like that. Am I right? Im no biblical scholar but want to understand it as best I can. I think its very important as far as the Great Commission is concerned. At first I thought it was saying that the second death was it, they were dead and not in eternal torment, but it says ...

They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So, now Im not so sure! I was prepared to accept that unrepentant souls simply ceased to exist. But that seems to say something different.

Either way, Im getting that to die without Christ is a bad thing. Can we expound more on the 1,000 year reign?

Can you help me understand the first parts of this chapter? Sigh. Am I on the right track?

 

[steve4.truth]

From what Ive read or come up with thus far I am thinking about the Lake of Fire...



Are the lake of burning sulfur and the lake of fire the same thing? Im guessing they are. Here it says that They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
It sounds like those who died without accepting Christ are dead but their soul is waiting to be raised for judgement. Something like that. Am I right? Im no biblical scholar but want to understand it as best I can. I think its very important as far as the Great Commission is concerned. At first I thought it was saying that the second death was it, they were dead and not in eternal torment, but it says ...



So, now Im not so sure! I was prepared to accept that unrepentant souls simply ceased to exist. But that seems to say something different.

Either way, Im getting that to die without Christ is a bad thing. Can we expound more on the 1,000 year reign?

Can you help me understand the first parts of this chapter? Sigh. Am I on the right track?

Ok, keep in mind that out of the whole Bible, only 2 small portions talk about people being put in fire and those are the 2 most symbolic parts of the Bible--the parables of Jesus and Revelations. Notice how much symbolism surrounds this lake of fire. First, fire can't be a lake. Now to the Jews in Jerusalem looking down over Gehenna (translated "hell" KJV) which was the trash dump for the city and always had fire (brimstone or sulfur added to keep it burning), this valley would look like a lake of fire. No live bodies were ever thrown into this valley. However criminals who were executed but not worthy of a proper burial in the family tomb, their corpses would be flung into this dump (Gehenna), a lake of fire--showing that they were "trash".
Also notice that "death and Hades" are thrown into this lake. Death can't burn! Hades, the common grave, can't burn. They are entities, like wallmart. Wallmart can't burn. Then why did the verse say this? The point is that death and the grave will be unneccessary and can be thrown in the trash (Gehenna-lake of fire) because noone will ever die again.
Also notice the beast is "tormented forever". Literal beasts are not accountable to God. Are the cows and bears going to be tormented forever? Of course, this beast is not literal either. comparing Rev. 13 with Dan. 7 shows that the beast represents human governments. There will be no need for human governments. Jesus will rule as the King of God's Kingdom. In fact human governments were not originally part of God's plan. He ruled directly from heaven. That's why the 'beast" is tormented forever. The idea of human governments will be a joke for eternity. The greek word for tormented is from the root word basanos, meaning touchstone. This was a black stone that will only leave a mark on real gold and was used for testing. So Human governments will be tested and exposed as counterfeit--along with Satan and the false prophet, forever. Only God's kingdom should have ever ruled over man. The righteous will mock and reproach Satan and human governments-- like, "I can't believe they actually thought they could mess up God's universe--what idiots!"

Notice also that death and Hades are emptied. These dead are resurrected. I was always taught that they were taken out of hell, judged, then thrown into a worse hell-the lake of fire. Why, what's the point? Rather, these people are resurected and judged for 1000 years. verse 4 shows that the heavenly rulers with Christ will judge for 1000 years. Judge does not mean "condemn" every time. Remember when Sampson, Gideon and Samuel "judged" Israel? it is a time of instruction and guidance. These people will then be judged according to their deeds in that 1000 yrs. If they reject the "rehabiliatation" then when Satan is let loose to tempt, they will not be found in the book of life and will end up being thrown into the lake of fire, the trash dump, which symbolizes eternal destruction with no resurrection. V.14 specifically tells us what the Lake of fire symbolizes--second death. The first death landed us in Hades, but we were resurrected! hades was emptied. The second death is permanent. We will miss out on all that God purposed for mankind. Imagine the whole universe only having peaceful, happy people who CHOOSE to love God and their neighbor and appreciate God's guidance and laws. A billion years of no suffering or tears and we are still in a young, strong body!!! Imagine the pursuits and activities!! To miss out on that is the second death.

 

[genifer]

Ok. I dig what you're saying. I want to understand it fully. Are you saying that people who reject Christ now will get the 1000 years reign as a 'second chance'? And we, who have already accepted Christ are judges and reign with Christ? Am I understanding that much correctly or am I missing something or way off? Thanks for patiently explaining this to me.

 

[fm107]

Ok, keep in mind that out of the whole Bible, only 2 small portions talk about people being put in fire and those are the 2 most symbolic parts of the Bible--the parables of Jesus and Revelations. Notice how much symbolism surrounds this lake of fire. First, fire can't be a lake.

Can fire be unquenchable? Well it is in hell.

It can be a lake – what about a lake of lava?

Also notice that "death and Hades" are thrown into this lake. Death can't burn! Hades, the common grave, can't burn. They are entities, like wallmart. Wallmart can't burn. Then why did the verse say this? The point is that death and the grave will be unneccessary and can be thrown in the trash (Gehenna-lake of fire) because noone will ever die again.

I think what is meant here is that, Death and Hades will be destroyed. The fear of death will be gone.

Also notice the beast is "tormented forever". Literal beasts are not accountable to God. Are the cows and bears going to be tormented forever? Of course, this beast is not literal either. comparing Rev. 13 with Dan. 7 shows that the beast represents human governments. There will be no need for human governments.

The beast referred to is the anti-Christ. Many Christians believe he will be the leader of the new world order. The beast will make all – great and small receive a mark either on their hand or their foreheads:

Revelation 13:15-18
He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666


Many believe this mark is the RFI chips and/or barcodes. Credit cards will become obsolete as well as cash. If someone accepts the mark of the beast on their body they will be condemned to Hell:

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

Jesus will rule as the King of God's Kingdom. In fact human governments were not originally part of God's plan. He ruled directly from heaven. That's why the 'beast" is tormented forever. The idea of human governments will be a joke for eternity. The greek word for tormented is from the root word basanos, meaning touchstone. This was a black stone that will only leave a mark on real gold and was used for testing. So Human governments will be tested and exposed as counterfeit--along with Satan and the false prophet, forever. Only God's kingdom should have ever ruled over man. The righteous will mock and reproach Satan and human governments-- like, "I can't believe they actually thought they could mess up God's universe--what idiots!"

We will not be mocking Satan – but I’m sure you get what he’s trying to say.

Notice also that death and Hades are emptied. These dead are resurrected. I was always taught that they were taken out of hell, judged, then thrown into a worse hell-the lake of fire. Why, what's the point?

Yeah, that’s not right. There is only one lake of fire, those who are destined to go there will remain in Hades until they are judged. Kind of like a cell before going to court. Once the verdict is reached they will be thrown into hell. I believe however that the severity of the pain / agony one recieves in Hell depends on how sinful etc their lives were. I don't know if there is scripture to back up this view-point however it would make sense as for example the person who betrayed Jesus is much more likely to recieve a worse punishment than others (in my opinion) scripture says it would have been better that he was not even born. Also Satan will obviously have the greatest punishment as he is the deciever of man.

 

[steve4.truth]

Ok. I dig what you're saying. I want to understand it fully. Are you saying that people who reject Christ now will get the 1000 years reign as a 'second chance'? And we, who have already accepted Christ are judges and reign with Christ? Am I understanding that much correctly or am I missing something or way off? Thanks for patiently explaining this to me.

you're close. people who reject Christ will be destroyed eternally--never live again--as if they had been burned up by fire (Gehenna or Lake of fire). Those who didn't have a fair chance to reject or accept Christ are in Hades (the grave), and will have a second chance in the 1000 yrs.